Football 2009/10 Season Talk

Any of you guys considering to come through to the world cup 2010 in South Africa next year???

It's going to be embarrasing with the host team falling out in the first round... (lost 9 out of 10 in our last 10 friendlies) :lol: .....

Aslo just a friendly warning.... please be careful if you do.... crime rate is high as it is, and I expect it to escalate with the world cup next year.... watch your back pocket all the time. (not an ambassador, am I??... but I'm a reallist.... just be verrrrry careful)
 
I doubt I'll be going to the World Cup, but I am going to the England vs Brazil game next month in Qatar :yahoo:

we are definitley better than Liverpool and City tho...the last 20+ years has proven that

Yet the last 5 years proves differently with no silverware and below us more than you've been above us and the last 30 years is even more in our favour. See I can pick a date to prove a theory ;)

I do hope that you win the cup though especially if he persists with the kids and doesn't resort to playing the likes of Fabregas and van Persie.

Arfie
 
chelsea all the way.

bolton got a battering.
Blackburn got a battering in the league and Athletico in the champions league.
 
Well that's us pretty much doomed, combination of yet more injuries and ridiculous substitutions and squad choice. I hate to say it but it looks like Rafa has already decided we can't win the league and has switched to the Champions League and that's really bad in October :angry:
 
Your not singing anymoreeeeeeeeee hahaha

to be fair in the last 5 years you have finished above us twice.....so that is a massive exaggeration.....its not Liverpool that has been our problem, its Chelsea and there spending money.

And you saying we won nothing with a established team yet we have zero players now that played for us in the 2006 champions league final.....and going on our results against Milan over the years, we would of won the cl if we didnt have to get past the best team in the world.

Since 2005 we have lost....

henry
bergkamp
campbell
cole
wiltord
ljungberg
pires
vieria
toure
adebayor
flamini
lauren
Bentley
gilberto
lehmann
edu
and a ton more....so its kinda stupid to state we have a established team considering our current starting XI has benn playing together for 1 years maximum....and now we look awesome...2 points off the top, 5 wins out of 5 at home, most goals scored, only 2 defeats...both away in Manchester....5 points clear of liverpool and a game in hand ....a Liverpool that have won once and lost 5 games out of the last 6.

Plus Benietez won the champions league with Houlliers team....plus against a Milan team that finished mid table that season....was about as impressive as the Porto win the years before it....just circumstance and luck of the draw.
 
All over by November. Shocking.

Any Liverpool fan that wants Rafa gone is foolish though. Only 6 points off the title last season, if we get rid of him now we'll be lucky to finish mid-table. And who would replace him anyway????

Cichlid_crazy, I must admit that Arsenal are looking better by the week. Really didn't think they would challenge but if Van Persie stays fit, and you dont lose one of your central defenders, then it's looking very good indeed.

Can't possibly agree with you on the Champiosn League though. Coming from 0-3 down at half-time to beat a team full of internationals was simply brilliant.
 
This might sound stupid but Van Persie is playing like a more technical version of Torres...which is awesome...hope he stays consistent.

Just need Arshavin to hit that form he got at the end of last season :)

I do agree with you tho....our biggest problem in recent years has been quality in depth...ie injury's and nothing to replace them with...only the season before last we finished 3 points from the top with pretty much the same team.

I think Liverpool should of kept Alonso.

They need a hard working quality Def Mid (Toulalan? Barry? Yaya?)and a strike partner for Torres also i think Reina is very overrated....they need to cut the 'hype machine' players like Babel and bring in world beaters like David Villa.
 
to be fair in the last 5 years you have finished above us twice.....so that is a massive exaggeration.....its not Liverpool that has been our problem, its Chelsea and there spending money.

No, we've finished above you 3 times in 5 years, let me refresh your memory:

2008/09 Liverpool 2nd - Arsenal 4th
2006/07 Liverpool 3rd - Arsenal 4th
2005/06 Liverpool 3rd - Arsenal 4th

so not only is it not a "massive exaggeration" it's an actual fact ;)

And you saying we won nothing with a established team yet we have zero players now that played for us in the 2006 champions league final.....

Wow, you really do have a bad memory don't you?.

The Arsenal team is established, most of the current players have been Arsenal for many years. It's odd you think none of the players form 2006 are still there, I'm fairly sure that Fabregas fella is still there as is Eboue who both started the final and Almunia who appeared after 18 mins, Clichy, Senderos and Van Persie were all on the bench for the final. Over half your current side were in the matchday squad for the CL final in 2006 then Song and Bendtner who were in the Arsenal squad at that time giving 8 of your current first team were around then. Eight is not quite "zero players" is it?

So as I said, you have an established squad, furthermore your manager had been in charge well over 5 years by the time Rafa arrived so had the time to get the squad and youth setup right by 2005 and is reaping the rewards now. Fabregas, Almunia, Eboue, Senderos and van Persie were all at Arsenal in the 2004/05 season when Rafa arrived along with who knows how many who were in the youth teams at that time.

and going on our results against Milan over the years, we would of won the cl if we didnt have to get past the best team in the world.

What an odd view, when we won in 2005 we'd already beaten Barcelona then again in 2007. We also beat the PSV team who'd just knocked Arsenal out in 2007, then Chelsea. So we did beat the team you call best team in the world, the year before you faced them then again the year after.

By your twisted logic, because we beat Barcelona in 2005 & 2007 we'd have won the final in 2006 if we'd not been knocked out before :lol:

That's the trouble with the Champions League, you have to beat the best in the world if you want to win, something you haven't done, ever.

Plus Benietez won the champions league with Houlliers team....

Indeed he did win with Houlliers team all the more incredible when you consider that only Gerrard and Carragher are still at the club now and unlike the losses you listed for Arsenal none of the players that have left Liverpool were of the same quality as Bergkamp or Henry so the fact he's finished above you and won a couple of trophies with this lower class of player is even more impressive. Oh there were a couple of his own signings in 2005 final though in Alonso and Garcia.

plus against a Milan team that finished mid table that season....was about as impressive as the Porto win the years before it....just circumstance and luck of the draw.

Do you just make this stuff up or do you really believe the rubbish you type?

The Milan team of 2005 finished as runners up, hardly mid table and the Milan team of 2007 finished 4th after a points deduction. Maybe that's mid table for you and for the record look back to the top of this post and you'll see it's the same mid table position Arsenal have finished for 3 of the last 4 years ;)

In 2005 we beat Barca (champions in 2005) and Juventus (champions in 2005) as well as Milan (runners up in 2005). In 2007 we beat Barcelona, then PSV (champions in 2007 and conquerers of Arsenal) then Chelsea (reigning champions of England and runners up in 2007), so hardly the easy run you are making it out to be is it?

You'll have to try harder than that drivel :rolleyes:

Arfie ;)
 
No, we've finished above you 3 times in 5 years, let me refresh your memory:

2008/09 Liverpool 2nd - Arsenal 4th
2006/07 Liverpool 3rd - Arsenal 4th
2005/06 Liverpool 3rd - Arsenal 4th

so not only is it not a "massive exaggeration" it's an actual fact ;)

OK if your gonna get petty this is the last 20 years


1990/91 Arsenal 1st Liverpool 2nd
1991/92 Arsenal 4th Liverpool 6th
1992/93 Arsenal 10th Liverpool 6th
1993/94 Arsenal 4th Liverpool 8th
1994/95 Arsenal 12th Liverpool 4th
1995/96 Arsenal 5th Liverpool 3rd
1996/97 Arsenal 3rd Liverpool 4th
1997/98 Arsenal 1st Liverpool 3rd
1998/99 Arsenal 2nd Liverpool 7th
1999/00 Arsenal 2nd Liverpool 4th
2000/01 Arsenal 2nd Liverpool 3rd
2001/02 Arsenal 1st Liverpool 2nd
2002/03 Arsenal 2nd Liverpool 5th
2003/04 Arsenal 1st Liverpool 4th
2004/05 Arsenal 2nd Liverpool 5th
2005/06 Arsenal 4th Liverpool 3rd
2006/07 Arsenal 4th Liverpool 3rd
2007/08 Arsenal 3rd Liverpool 4th
2008/09 Arsenal 4th Liverpool 2nd

Result= LAST 20 Years

Finished highest = Arsenal 14 Liverpool 6
League wins = Arsenal 5 Liverpool 0
Runners up = Arsenal 5 Liverpool 3
Top 5 finishes = Arsenal 17 Liverpool 14
FA Cup wins = Arsenal 6 Liverpool 2
FA Cup Finals = Arsenal 7 Liverpool 3
League Cup wins = Arsenal 1 Liverpool 3
League Cup Finals = Arsenal 2 Liverpool 4
European Cup = Arsenal 0 Liverpool 1
European Cup finals = Arsenal 1 Liverpool 2
Uefa Cup - Arsenal 0 Liverpool 1
Uefa Cup Finals = Arsenal 1 Liverpool 1
European Cup Winners Cup = Arsenal 1 Liverpool 0
Cup Winners Cup FInals = Arsenal 2 Liverpool 0
Community Shield Winners = Arsenal 5 Liverpool 2
C. Shield runners up = Arsenal 2 Liverpool 2

Trophy count in last 20 years =

Arsenal 18 Liverpool 9

Wow, you really do have a bad memory don't you?.

The Arsenal team is established, most of the current players have been Arsenal for many years. It's odd you think none of the players form 2006 are still there, I'm fairly sure that Fabregas fella is still there as is Eboue who both started the final and Almunia who appeared after 18 mins, Clichy, Senderos and Van Persie were all on the bench for the final. Over half your current side were in the matchday squad for the CL final in 2006 then Song and Bendtner who were in the Arsenal squad at that time giving 8 of your current first team were around then. Eight is not quite "zero players" is it?

So as I said, you have an established squad, furthermore your manager had been in charge well over 5 years by the time Rafa arrived so had the time to get the squad and youth setup right by 2005 and is reaping the rewards now. Fabregas, Almunia, Eboue, Senderos and van Persie were all at Arsenal in the 2004/05 season when Rafa arrived along with who knows how many who were in the youth teams at that time.

Champions league final team

GK Jens Lehmann ....currently playing for Stutgart...reason for leaving..age
RB Emmanuel Eboué ..was playing to cover the injured Lauren...still a reserve now
CB Kolo Touré...currently playing for Man City...reason for leaving...sold due to lack of aerial presence and leadership
CB Sol Campbell...currently unnattached....reason for leaving...mental breakdown,contract was not renewed
LB Ashley Cole....currently playing for chelsea....reason for leaving...Chelsea money
RM Robert Pirès...currently playing for Villareal....reason for leaving...age
CM Gilberto Silva...currently playing for panathinaikos...reason for leaving...age
CM Cesc Fàbregas ...still in first team...this was his first full season aged 17
LM Aliaksandr Hleb...currently playing for Barcelona....reason for leaving...failure/couldnt settle
SS Fredrik Ljungberg...currently playing for Seattle...reason for leaving...age
CF Thierry Henry (c)....currently playign for Barcelona...reason for leaving...unsettled/messy divorce

Subs

GK Manuel Almunia...was reserve keeper...came on for Pires because of Lehmanns sending off...still playing for us
DF Philippe Senderos...rotting in our reserves...nobody wants him...played zero games this season
DF Gaël Clichy....no final appearance....on the bench because of inurys...didnt play till following season
MF Mathieu Flamini....currently at Milan...reason for leaving...end of contract/wanted more money
FW José Antonio Reyes...currently playing for Atl. Madrid...reason for leaving...unsettled in England
FW Dennis Bergkamp....retired
FW Robin van Persie....on the bench due to injurys...no final appearance...didnt start regular until following season


Hardly stretching the truth is it... the players mentioned were carling cup players at best and a part of our youth set up...look up those players appearances for that season if you want clarification

It would be a established team if these guys were regular starters....but other than Almunia,Clichy and Van Persie..none have been regular squad players for us..let alone starters

Also that is 7...not 8...nice exaggeration there....Song had never played a game for us and was on loan to Charlton, Bendtner the same and was on loan to Birmingham...both players were freebies from our Youth system so hardly established players so that = 5...not 8....Van Persie and Clichy were the same...both youth products and neither started any games...RVP made the occasional sub appearance in unimportant games or to cover injurys....Clichy never played anything but the League Cup.....so that narrows you down to 2...a back up keeper that never played and a promising substitute.

That took me foar to logn to write to even bother delving into the rest of the BS you posted.

Teh facts are there in black and white....or maybe even white on black if you are using a different skin ;)

Liverpool are bad losers who are living in the 70's.....wheres Kenny Dalglish when you need him now huh? ... all you got now is a goal poacher who is lazy as hell and nowhere near the footballer Robin Van Persie is and a very good hard working midfielder who is on par with Cesc Fabregas...but alot older....the rest of your team is not even comparable to ours.
 
ooo I forgot to mention arsenal signed Senderos,Van Persie,Clichy,Almunia all in 2004, Eboue in 2005 and Fabregas in 2003....Song was not there then...he signed the year after...then went out on loan to Charlton...so i got that wrong.....so thats another you can knock off your list.

Thats hardly years to set up his current team..

And as mentioned before Senderos does not play....Van Perise is playing his second season as a starter...and spent nearly all of the first season injured....Clichy started playing in 2006 after Cole left....Eboue was dropped in 2007 for Sagna and rarely makes the squad unless we have injurys...Fabregas became a starter in 2006 after Vieira left.

Arsene Wenger became the Arsenal manager in 1994

his current crop of players were signed like this..

1 Manuel Almunia 2004....reserve keeper until 2007
2 Abou Diaby 2006....spent 2008 injured
3 Bacary Sagna 2007
4 Cesc Fàbregas 2004...started playing in the first team in 2006
5 Thomas Vermaelen 2009
6 Philippe Senderos 2004...spent 2008 with milan
7 Tomáš Rosický 2006...missed all of last season
8 Samir Nasri 2008,,,,missed al of this season so far
9 Eduardo 2007...missed all of last season
10 William Gallas 2006
11 Robin van Persie 2004...missed most of last season...and the season before...and the season b4
12 Carlos Vela initially 2006...no work permit until 2008..spent 2006 with Celta..2007 Salamanca
14 Theo Walcott 2006...never played 1 game in 2006 except for England...only played once this season
15 Denílson 2006....spent 2006 with corinthians
16 Aaron Ramsey 2008
17 Alexandre Song 2006....spent 2006 with Charlton
18 Mikaël Silvestre 2008
19 Jack Wilshere school boy/youth system since 2005...didnt play until 2009...made only 1 league appearance
20 Johan Djourou 2006....spent 2008 with Birmingham...spent 2007 with Salamanca
21 Łukasz Fabiański 2007...played 3 games for us in total
22 Gaël Clichy 2004...didnt start until 2007
23 Andrei Arshavin 2009...signed January 31st 2009
24 Vito Mannone 2007...no starts till 2009
27 Emmanuel Eboué 2004
28 Kieran Gibbs school boy/youth system since 2005..didnt play until 2009
30 Armand Traoré 2007...spent 2008 with Portsmouth
32 Fran Mérida 2006...never played a game for us till we beat LIVERPOOL in the carling cup last week
52 Nicklas Bendtner 2005...never started a game until 2008,,,spent 2007 with Birmingham
53 Wojciech Szczęsny 2007...never played a game for us

Now tell me that is a established team that is older than 5 years old? its got a average age of 2.5 years.
 
I was wrong about Milan...i'm still sure they was placed around 7th last tiem i checked that season...might have been confused with JUve or Inter.

Heres a few more stats for you...

last 25 matches...Arsenal vs Liverpool


Teams--------Pld-------W-----D------L-----Score
Arsenal------25---------11-----8--------6-------47:40
Liverpool----25---------6------8--------11------40:47

Results

English-Carling-Cup-2009-2010
Arsenal vs Liverpool 2:1

English-Premier-League-2008-2009
Liverpool vs Arsenal 4:4
Arsenal vs Liverpool 1:1

UEFA-Champions-League-2007-2008
Liverpool vs Arsenal 4:2

English-Premier-League-2007-2008
Arsenal vs Liverpool 1:1

UEFA-Champions-League-2007-2008
Arsenal vs Liverpool 1:1

English-Premier-League-2007-2008
Liverpool vs Arsenal 1:1

English-Premier-League-2006-2007
Liverpool vs Arsenal 4:1

English-Carling-Cup-2006-2007
Liverpool vs Arsenal 3:6

English-FA-Cup-2006-2007
Liverpool vs Arsenal 1:3

English-Premier-League-2006-2007
Arsenal vs Liverpool 3:0

English-Premier-League-2005-2006
Arsenal vs Liverpool 2:1
Liverpool vs Arsenal 1:0

English-Premier-League-2004-2005
Arsenal vs Liverpool 3:1
Liverpool vs Arsenal 2:1

English-Premier-League-2003-2004
Arsenal vs Liverpool 4:2
Liverpool vs Arsenal 1:2

English-Premier-League-2002-2003
Liverpool vs Arsenal 2:2
Arsenal vs Liverpool 1:1

English-FA-Cup-2001-2002
Arsenal vs Liverpool 1:0

English-Premier-League-2001-2002
Arsenal vs Liverpool 1:1
Liverpool vs Arsenal 1:2

English-FA-Cup-2000-2001
Arsenal vs Liverpool 1:2

English-Premier-League-2000-2001
Liverpool vs Arsenal 4:0
Arsenal vs Liverpool 2:0
 
I'm kinda bored proving stuff now so maybe we can get back on track.

All stats prove Arsenal are better than Liverpool...i mean we have finished in the top 2 10 times in the last 20 years and won 5 leagues to Liverpools 0

The rest of the sats are blatant....we beat you with our kids twice against ESTABLISHED first teamers in the League cup...

We are 5 points clear of you in the league with a game in hand....you have lost 5 out of the last 6.

You have more long term established players than we have....

Gah..its all there in my previous posts....end of discussion IMO.

Soz bout the multi posts guys...im a Arsenal fan whos got both OCD and Bipolar haha! so i keep getting the compulsion to continue posting new things....my bad.
 
Brilliant, I never argued that you're better than us over 20 years, I know you were or even over 10 years. But over the most recent 5 years, ie recent history we've been better than you in both league position and trophies won. If you want to go longer, fine, go look up 30 years or 40 years, after all what relevance has 20 years got that 30 hasn't? Even better how about looking since you were born? Since Aug 1981 (according to your profile) Liverpool have won 6 leagues, 5 FA Cups, 6 League cups, 2 European Cups and a Uefa Cup, we also were reigning European champions and holders of the league cup when you were born. Arsenal won 5 leagues, 5 FA Cups, 2 League cups, 0 European Cups, 0 Uefa cups. Now if you want me to include the 7 charity shields (Arsenal 5), 1 super cup (arsenal 0), 2 European super cup (Arsenal 0) then I'm happy to. Or we can do it from when I was born, 10 years before you but then it would just get embarrasing for you because Arsenal won absolutely nothing for that whole 10 years.

Basically over the 5 years Rafa has been at Liverpool we've been better than Arsenal, sadly neither of us matching Chelsea or Manyoo. You're the one who doesn't like Liverpool harping on about history, yet you are quoting 20 year old stats, so if you do want to bring up history you are on a loser as we've won the league, league cup, european cup, eufa cup and charity shield more times than Arsenal, in fact the FA Cup is the only proper trophy you've won more than us.

So contrary to your incorrect declaration, all the stats do not prove Arsenal are better, they prove that in the short term Liverpool are and in the long term Liverpool are :p

You can tell me how many games Eboue or Fabregas played all you like along with how many minutes they played etc, but YOUR statement was that "we have zero players now that played for us in the 2006 champions league final....." when in fact 3 of your players actually played in the final and 3 more were on the bench. You keep accusing me of massive exaggeration, yet there you are massively wrong. You can't claim they weren't there or weren't good enough, they were in the Champions League final squad.

The fact that these players were even in the first team squad back then brings stability, they are established players by virtue of the fact that they have been there that long and for 6 of the current team to have been in the Champions League final squad means they were good enough back then. Compare to Liverpool who have 2 players that were here when Rafa arrived. Whether players were on loan or not doesn't matter they were Arsenal players and are settled there, we have no players that were even on loan back then.

Those players were all at Arsenal that year, playing or not doesn't matter they were there then which means they are now established having been on the books for 5 years as first teamers along with time in the youth squads. By the way Senderos has played in 2 games for you this season including the cup game against us and has been described as a "new start" for him by Wenger. By the way I listed Song as being there in 2004/05 which was wrong, but you didn't sign him in 2006 as you claim in your dull list, he played in the league for you in sept 2005 against Everton and another 4 other appearances in the league and 4 more in the various cups. (that's what you'd call another massive exaggeration ;))

You clearly aren't understanding that players that are established now didn't need to be first choice then, they simply needed to be at the club. Regardless of all that, Arsene has been there for much longer so players that have left in the last 5 years were his players too and he presumably chose to let them go. The fact that players came through the youth team further helps them become established, before they got into the first team they were schooled in the way Arsenal want them to play where signings have to get used to that then they get gradually added to the first team.

You asked where Kenny Dalglish is? He came back in the summer to help out with the academy as we've had a poor one for years under the stewardship of Rick Parry and hopefully he'll be able to get it back on track.

I like the lazy striker accusation, current top scorer (3 clear of the allegedly superior RVP) despite his injuries and listed in the world player shortlist as is Gerrard, though I note that Fabregas didn't make it along with the rest of the Arsenal squad ;) I'm not going to belittle Fabregas, I think he's a fantastic talent, but has he inspired Arsenal to win a trophy? No, but Gerrard has, they even refer to the 2006 FA Cup as the Gerrard final, he also inspired the 2005 champions League win, when Fabregas has done that for Arsenal, then maybe he'll be in the same class. But if you really do think the whole of the rest of our squad is worse than yours, it makes our outperforming you over 5 years even more remarkable ;)

What's the point of listing all the games of the last 9 seasons? Either keep it at the time Rafa has been there or Arsene has been at Arsenal or over all time. So bearing in mind that Rafa has been there since the 2004/05 season it reads quite close (assuming your list is right):

League, played 10, Liverpool 3 - Arsenal 3 - Draw 4
FA Cup, played 1, Arsenal 1
League cup, played 2, Arsenal 2
Champions League, played 2, Liverpool 1 - Draw one

and yet having knocked us out of 3 cups, you've gone on to win NONE of them and in the league it's dead level, but you've still been below us in 3 of the 5 seasons including last year.

As for your last post, as you have 7 players who were at Arsenal in 2004/05 and we have 2 you can't possibly believe that we have more players who are established, quite simply they aren't. In fact of our first team regulars only Carra and Gerrard were here in 2004 and only Reina was here before 2006, all the rest including Torres, Mascherano, Agger, Skrtel, babel, Kuyt, Benayoun, Insua, Aurelio, Riera, Lucas, Ngog, Voronin were all bought in 2006 onwards.

I like how you think that we played an established team against your kids in the carling cup, you do realise you actually fielded six full internationals don't you? Along with Gibbs and Ramsey who've both played in over 20 games. Merida did well to score on his debut and it was a cracking goal too, Aquilani may have scored one on his debut had Senderos (the one you say hasn't played this season) not caught the ball ;) I suspect if you added the number of first team appearances up between the teams (I'll let you do that because I can't be bothered), there wont be much in it as Aquilani was making his first team debut, and Krygiakos and Degan have 4 appearances each and Spearing and Plessis are hardly ESTABLISHED first team players either with 5 and 8 appearances.

While I can't claim to have OCD and be bipolar, I am cantankerous, intelligent and capable of checking facts and have a memory that lasts longer than 20 years and remembers the last 5 quite well too.

Would you like any more education about my club, your club or football in general? :lol:

Arfie
 
If you read on you'll see it was 5 players in the squad...not 7...and 1 of them had never played a game for us....yeh i was slightly off with the zero because those players had such little involvment in the team at the time...plus it was off of the top of my head without googling information.

You say last 30 years but if you look at statto.com you'll see there stats go back 25 years and we are still on top ;)...and considering i'm 28 years old, i remember what i have been alive to remember....its not like i'm bringing up how we dominated football in the 1930's is it now?

I mean you can harp on about past achievements as much as you like ...i mean man utd have over taken you now anyway...so your in no position to scream about the 'all conquering' liverpool anymore.

You say you have won more in the last 5 years other than the fluke cl win? what have you won exactly?....3-2 on final positions (which will soon be 3-2 to us after this season...means #105###.)...you won the fa cup 4 years ago against West Ham and we won the Fa cup 5 years ago against Man Utd...

I could literally go about this forever and have a million things to say...but i know I'll never stop.
 
Any Man Utd fans around here fancy standing up and shooting this Liverpool obsessive down in flames? im sick of hearing about there pathetic weak team...the reason i have got to this point is because you whiners have been harping on about how great you are since page 1 of this thread.

Pretty bold from a team that has never won a premier league trophey to think they are the best team in England...
 

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