Fluval ribbed hosing. Some truths and myths.

[Oddball59]

I've seen and heard a lot of people speaking badly of the Flugal ribbed hosing on their filters. I thought I would way in with my two pence worth.
There are a few misconceptions....

Ribbed hosing is black, clear hosing looks cleaner.... but not forever, and the build up in clear tube is a mess and looks a mess. It also reduces flow on clear pipe Quite a lot which doesn't happen on ribbed pipe to such an extent because of the turbulence within the pipe.

The ribs allow a build up of dirt, the opposite is actually true, the ribs cause a turbidity in the water flow which actually cleans the pipes, an analogy would be our hearts, if our arteries were ribbed the turbidity would help keep our arteries clear of all the crap that leads to heart attacks, stent and valve replacement etc.. we wouldn't get heart attacks due to arteries.

Flexibility? If you bend the clear plastic into a "U" shape it will collapse and form a crease, this doesn't happen with ribbed hosing which will hold the "U" shape.

These are just a few points but valid and important to get the best, of course its all down to each of us to decide what's best I prefer Flugal canisters and pipework for these reasons and more.

I also ran a Flugal 7 series canister, which I loved. The ergonomics are excellent. The medium basket which just lifts easily out in one piece and popped in a bucket with little water spillage is excellent. I had an Oase biomaster which worked well, but the canister system wasn't as good having to lift each basket out individually.....? The worse was what I thought was the best when I bought it, the inbuilt heater! That turned out to be the worse as I dropped the lid from a height, not too high and the bloody heater sticking out of the lid broke. The priming system was better than Flugal. Pipe connections equally good. But I still prefer the ribbed hosing as above.

One challenge I'm having is installing an inline diffuser for Co2, but I've seen and heard it can be done, the guys at horizon who I'm getting a Co2Art manifold from assure me it can be fitted on the ribbed hose... I'm excited to see this done as it drives me nuts having all the tech on display. I also believe an inline diffuser will disperse the Co2 better around the tank as it's expelled under pressure. I'll be fitting this as close to the outlet as possible. I think it's a question of getting the right spares... hose connection from Flugal and using cable ties or screw on clips. Maybe even some tank safe silicone for a belt and braces approach.

One point... Flugal who I called say they don't recommend inline diffusers as they are prone to. leaks. They also said they are developing their own inline system... so maybe they want to dissuade people to maximise sales when they come to market with their own system! But maybe thats my cynical side.

If only Oase would make the heater so it stayed in its own little spot in the canister, or could be removed before taking off the lid they'd be well on the way to a winner and improve the basket system. I do find the Flugal seems to be better constructed, certainly easier to work on basket wise.

I'd love to hear what others think of their kit, can you make comparisons too?

I will be looking for a new filter soon, so unless I'm convinced otherwise I'll go Flugal again.

 

[Wills]

Definitely interesting point on the ribbed hosing - I'm about to set up an FX4 and was inclined to get smooth off brand hoses for it (they old ones need replacing as its second hand). I hadn't considered that the corrugation had a use, I always assumed it was just a look thing - as in to make it feel more rugged.

On the Biomaster - I didn't realise you'd had tanks before! Apologies if I've been teaching you to suck eggs at any point haha! But on the biomaster, you can take the heater out, there is a little twist clip that lets you take it out and you get a plug in the box to fill it - if for what ever reason you don't want the heater in.

I've had a lot of FX6's and FX5's in the past and found them pretty unreliable to be honest... the biomaster I have on my 100 litre which I think is a 250 is going strong after 3 years! Some of this could be because its much much easier to maintain. With the FX6 there are multiple annoying elements that grind my gears and put me off doing maintenance, when you disconnect the taps there is a tiny amount of water that always spills out but its just enough to be annoying. When you take the clips off the tank is full to the rim so you have to balance it until you get it to the sink our outside. The twisty bolts are fiddly, pop out and break. The gimmicky counters on the top (though I think these might not be on anymore). But in return for this you do get unrivaled power.

The biomaster by comparison, all the fastenings are really solid and only move one way, the levers to shut the tank are really strong and quick to close. The prefilter saves sooooo soooo much time and effort compared to taking the whole thing apart and I like having the heater hidden. You can also fit aftermarket lilly pipes to it - glass or steel which you can't with the FX range - though I would pay very good money for steel fittings for the FX6. When you take the prefilter out of the biomaster it drops the water level and the ball valve on the hose connector means no mess when you move it for what ever reason.

Just as an other contender and one I think sits in the middle of this argument is the Aquael Ultramax, the flow is right between the Biomaster 850 and the FX ranges, it has similar capacity to the FX6 and it has a prefilter as well and has standard size hoses that makes it easy to update. All my big tanks are second hand at the moment so just using the kit that comes with them but if I was buying new or upgrading/replacing I think these might be my port of call.

Wills

 

[Oddball59]

Definitely interesting point on the ribbed hosing - I'm about to set up an FX4 and was inclined to get smooth off brand hoses for it (they old ones need replacing as its second hand). I hadn't considered that the corrugation had a use, I always assumed it was just a look thing - as in to make it feel more rugged.

On the Biomaster - I didn't realise you'd had tanks before! Apologies if I've been teaching you to suck eggs at any point haha! But on the biomaster, you can take the heater out, there is a little twist clip that lets you take it out and you get a plug in the box to fill it - if for what ever reason you don't want the heater in.

I've had a lot of FX6's and FX5's in the past and found them pretty unreliable to be honest... the biomaster I have on my 100 litre which I think is a 250 is going strong after 3 years! Some of this could be because its much much easier to maintain. With the FX6 there are multiple annoying elements that grind my gears and put me off doing maintenance, when you disconnect the taps there is a tiny amount of water that always spills out but its just enough to be annoying. When you take the clips off the tank is full to the rim so you have to balance it until you get it to the sink our outside. The twisty bolts are fiddly, pop out and break. The gimmicky counters on the top (though I think these might not be on anymore). But in return for this you do get unrivaled power.

The biomaster by comparison, all the fastenings are really solid and only move one way, the levers to shut the tank are really strong and quick to close. The prefilter saves sooooo soooo much time and effort compared to taking the whole thing apart and I like having the heater hidden. You can also fit aftermarket lilly pipes to it - glass or steel which you can't with the FX range - though I would pay very good money for steel fittings for the FX6. When you take the prefilter out of the biomaster it drops the water level and the ball valve on the hose connector means no mess when you move it for what ever reason.

Just as an other contender and one I think sits in the middle of this argument is the Aquael Ultramax, the flow is right between the Biomaster 850 and the FX ranges, it has similar capacity to the FX6 and it has a prefilter as well and has standard size hoses that makes it easy to update. All my big tanks are second hand at the moment so just using the kit that comes with them but if I was buying new or upgrading/replacing I think these might be my port of call.

Wills

Kia Ora. Hi Wills. When I was talking about Fluval canisters I was only really thinking about the newer four series, which I think addresses much you have mentioned. The only bugbear I've got is they won't sell fittings to attach an inline diffuser on the output, although I've talked to them several times they're quite adamant. I think there is a way involving chopping up clear tubing and using jubilee clips and it all gets messy. The only thing they'd tell me is they are working on an inline diffuser which will be Flugal fittings specific..... as an aside I'm getting the inline UV light, £20 cheaper on Amazon and thats just plug and play. I think I mentioned I enjoy the Flugal drilled tank connection so all pipes are inside a cabinet or whatever you use.

As for my experiences in the past I've only ever really had "community" tanks. I certainly haven't done the deep dives you have and as always I'm really grateful for your advice. However since I had to stop working due to my PTSD which came from wars and having about twenty people trying to kill me, (they all missed lol) plus walking through minefields and nearly getting wiped out in a chopper plus other darker stuff.

The final blow was my beautiful 18 yr old boy who was super intelligent and had a place at Oxford to study medical research, got a rare bone disease and I (a single parent) lost him after a nine month fight, that really finished me off mentally.

So unable to work I started valeting cars for friends and relatives etc... but in the last maybe six months arthritis has ripped my hands, elbows, and wrists plus shoulders and I can't valet. So I had to find a new obsession.... as I say I've had tanks but not as a serious undertaking, but I thought about the tranquility and peace they bring plus the technical side which I love/hate I decided to go deep dive this time and do something special, research and truth seeking is something I love.
There is definitely a dichotomy about aquascaping and fish keeping in general... we speak of achieving this replica a true representation of nature and beautiful things are created.... you have done many. But the truth is a true representation of nature doesn't involve centimetres of glass on a cube or whatever. So thats often at the back of my mind.... especially if I see wild caught fish for sale.
I don't know what a fish thinks, not too much I guess, but they do feel stress.

Philosophically I think it's so important to consider giving the best environment as well as we seek gratification from this beautiful hobby/art form.

Mentally I've had problems for obvious reasons, and I've spent time in some psychiatric units... which is also an inspiration for what I'm doing now, also often have aquariums for the patients who would gather around them instead of watching Coronation St lol. Although sadly many no longer have aquariums as some patients have through some delusion or other decided to smash the tanks. Sad really.

I also have a degree in electrical engineering, many marine engineering tickets, and a Philosophy degree, so I actually still have two jobs... unpaid! But I work casual for two Chinese tech manufacturers who send me prototypes, or Beta models which I stress test, study and use then write a report covering all of it, the ergonomics, usability, faults, suggest improvements etc..... Sometimes they listen, sometimes my suggestions would push the price too high for their markets. But it gives me something to do which I enjoy. I get to keep the prototype and get sent one of the final production models which I can do what I want with. I currently have five bluetooth keyboards on my desk plus chargers, iPad cases and chargers... power banks... (So if your ever looking for tech, give me a shout and I should be able to hook you up.) They did buy me two iPads so I could work! I also get mates rates on products from China.

Maybe I should contact the R and D teams and suggest creating aqua products is the next new big thing lol!

Sorry a bit long winded, and I'm certainly not seeking sympathy of any kind, most I've been through I've put myself in that place.

But again I'm very grateful for all your advice and its well received, you're certainly not teaching me to suck eggs!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

As far as I could discover smooth tubes generally give the better flow. But there is a lot of complex science and math etc involved. So i suggest folks have read of this thread on the topic from 2014 on the UKAPS site:
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/do-fluval-ribbed-hoses-reduce-flow.35175/

It seems the flow rate thing may be a marketing tactic by Fluval. The OP kept typing Flugal and I assume that it was a mistake and Fluval was intended.

One the the main points I grabbed from the linked thread above was the following observation. If ribbed hosing was the better option when it comes to flow rates, would not more of the canister filters makers use ribbed rather than smooth hose? Who else supplies ribbed with thei units?

Finally, I bought most of my canisters 20 years ago, the most recent was over 15 years back. I have only every considered one brand and that is Eheim. Back when I was buying them, Fluval, had a poor reputation fir canisters. I do not think Oase was around yet (I could be wrong). Eheim's flow rates for given tank volumes tend to be slower than for other canisters. And their seems to hold more media. There is a reason for that.

The one thing I do know is one of the greatest urban aquarium myths about filtration is that faster flow is better. This is not the case. The microorganisms involved in the nitrogen cycle have to take what they need from the water moving through the biofilm in which they live. So one way to understand this all is by an analogy.

In some tanks we use a UV unit to help with nasties in our water. There are several parameters used to determine what sort of unit would be best in any given situation. One of the factors involved is dwell time. This refers to how long the water passing through the unit will be exposed to the UV light. This has to do with the flow rate. Too fast and stuff in the water passes through before this stuff is exposed to the UV for long enough to kill it.

On the other hand if flow is slowed to increase dwell time this can be a problem. To work, the UV needs to come into contact with all of the tank water as possible. Slow the flow and the volume of water passing through the unit will not be sufficient because the unit does not turnover the volume water enough times to be efficient. How long the water if in contact, dwell time, comebines with turnover, to make the unit the right size and the flow rate sufficient to do the job.

So, more speed in a filter system is not linear in the results it will produce. Too fast tand the time any give volume of water is in contact with the bacteria is shortened and the bacteria can not extract as much ammonia/nitrite etc. as they are optimally able to take in. There is another important factor here.

This is shear force. If there is too high a flow rate in a system, it can cause piece of the biofim to break off. Aside from high flow potentially being a detriment to fish and plants, it can also be a problem for the bacteria. As more bacteria colonize, the biofilm gets thicker, The thicker is is the more susceptible it is to shear forces. This was one of the reasons behind the development of the bio-wheel. The continual rotation tends to cause the biofilm to be spread out more evenly on the media which should make that part of thing more effective. Alss it is more effective at getting gasses into the film since the whell is in the open air, as opposed to submerged inside a filter. Gas exchange is a surface phenomenon. That is why we are taught that the more surface area a tank has, the better oxygenated it can be (as long as the surface is agitated). When it comes to gas exchange area is more important than vailume. The same principle applies to the biofilm.

I do have one last question in the ribbed v.s. smooth discussion. Most ribbed hose is black and most smooth hose is somewhat transparent. I can see how much stuff is built up in my hoses, how can the be done in a ribbed hose? I do know that one can get clear ribbed hoses. But I believe ribbed or smooth black hose is preferred for pond use because it is UV resistant. The hose maye be exposed to sunlight which is full of UV.

If you have ever owned a swimming pool with and automatic pool vac. your told not to take it out of the water and leave it sitting exposed to suinlight as that will degrade the plastic and polyvinyl components. I think this may be why Eheim supplies its green hoses with their canisters. When I ran my high tech planted tank which had pressurized CO2, I had to buy special co2 resitant tubing for the CO2 gas line. Using regualar airline type hoses was recommended against.

 

[Oddball59]

As far as I could discover smooth tubes generally give the better flow. But there is a lot of complex science and math etc involved. So i suggest folks have read of this thread on the topic from 2014 on the UKAPS site:
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/do-fluval-ribbed-hoses-reduce-flow.35175/

It seems the flow rate thing may be a marketing tactic by Fluval. The OP kept typing Flugal and I assume that it was a mistake and Fluval was intended.

One the the main points I grabbed from the linked thread above was the following observation. If ribbed hosing was the better option when it comes to flow rates, would not more of the canister filters makers use ribbed rather than smooth hose? Who else supplies ribbed with thei units?

Finally, I bought most of my canisters 20 years ago, the most recent was over 15 years back. I have only every considered one brand and that is Eheim. Back when I was buying them, Fluval, had a poor reputation fir canisters. I do not think Oase was around yet (I could be wrong). Eheim's flow rates for given tank volumes tend to be slower than for other canisters. And their seems to hold more media. There is a reason for that.

The one thing I do know is one of the greatest urban aquarium myths about filtration is that faster flow is better. This is not the case. The microorganisms involved in the nitrogen cycle have to take what they need from the water moving through the biofilm in which they live. So one way to understand this all is by an analogy.

In some tanks we use a UV unit to help with nasties in our water. There are several parameters used to determine what sort of unit would be best in any given situation. One of the factors involved is dwell time. This refers to how long the water passing through the unit will be exposed to the UV light. This has to do with the flow rate. Too fast and stuff in the water passes through before this stuff is exposed to the UV for long enough to kill it.

On the other hand if flow is slowed to increase dwell time this can be a problem. To work, the UV needs to come into contact with all of the tank water as possible. Slow the flow and the volume of water passing through the unit will not be sufficient because the unit does not turnover the volume water enough times to be efficient. How long the water if in contact, dwell time, comebines with turnover, to make the unit the right size and the flow rate sufficient to do the job.

So, more speed in a filter system is not linear in the results it will produce. Too fast tand the time any give volume of water is in contact with the bacteria is shortened and the bacteria can not extract as much ammonia/nitrite etc. as they are optimally able to take in. There is another important factor here.

This is shear force. If there is too high a flow rate in a system, it can cause piece of the biofim to break off. Aside from high flow potentially being a detriment to fish and plants, it can also be a problem for the bacteria. As more bacteria colonize, the biofilm gets thicker, The thicker is is the more susceptible it is to shear forces. This was one of the reasons behind the development of the bio-wheel. The continual rotation tends to cause the biofilm to be spread out more evenly on the media which should make that part of thing more effective. Alss it is more effective at getting gasses into the film since the whell is in the open air, as opposed to submerged inside a filter. Gas exchange is a surface phenomenon. That is why we are taught that the more surface area a tank has, the better oxygenated it can be (as long as the surface is agitated). When it comes to gas exchange area is more important than vailume. The same principle applies to the biofilm.

I do have one last question in the ribbed v.s. smooth discussion. Most ribbed hose is black and most smooth hose is somewhat transparent. I can see how much stuff is built up in my hoses, how can the be done in a ribbed hose? I do know that one can get clear ribbed hoses. But I believe ribbed or smooth black hose is preferred for pond use because it is UV resistant. The hose maye be exposed to sunlight which is full of UV.

If you have ever owned a swimming pool with and automatic pool vac. your told not to take it out of the water and leave it sitting exposed to suinlight as that will degrade the plastic and polyvinyl components. I think this may be why Eheim supplies its green hoses with their canisters. When I ran my high tech planted tank which had pressurized CO2, I had to buy special co2 resitant tubing for the CO2 gas line. Using regualar airline type hoses was recommended against.

Kia Ora Amin. Great points, I don't know why other companies don't use ribbed hose, it may be an aesthetic thing, clear plastic looks cleaner than black pipes (until it grows gunk inside) but is also more susceptible to ambient light causing growth.,I also like your swimming pool analogy. It may be economic. or you may be right and it's snake oil, I don't believe this but you could be right. Your point of build up being visible is also valid but you would know if your flow drops and the filter is clean and you eliminate all else then we'd know it was the tubing.

I suppose a plus point would be that you can see if you've cleaned the tubes... Or buy new ones if your budget allows. In this case clear is cheaper but ribbed is just as available, as it's used far more in outdoor ponds.

I still prefer the canister system on Fluval, and I like the tank is drilled at the bottom so the pipes are not even visible. We often have so much plastic hanging off the tank it's a distasteful distraction. IMHO. And the ribbed tubing will not deform if bent beyond a point into a "U" shape.

The question of UV is interesting, I spent many years at sea and all potable water had to be passed through a UV filter. Sometimes at a high flow, more often not! But the main point was the size of the UV system, using maybe six three foot UV tubes so the flow isn't necessarily the point, the size of the light is a crucial factor when placed against your water flow. So buy the largest UV thats decent quality you can afford. Undoubtably we can all agree UV is the best barrier to algae growth. I don't want to teach anyone to suck eggs but don't turn UV on in a new tank, it will kill beneficial bacteria before its established if it's in the water stream. I haven't got to the bottom of this, some companies who I enjoy grilling say don't put the UV on until the tank has cycled, and another told me "Ahhh give it four days or so".

Buy a good co2 manifold and they usually come with the stronger piping, but you're quite right to point it out, even with a check v/v it could blow out.

At the end of the day, it's all subjective and any decent quality filter will work, I have my preferences others have theirs and actually we can all be right.
All the best Amin Kia Kaha. Phil.