Fishless cycle questions

[Salts155R]

I’m about to start the process of a fishless cycle using Dr timms ammonia and I have a few questions.

can I add plants and ornaments whilst cycling the tank or is it best to wait ?

does lighting affect the process, I.e if I have the lights off

 

[mcordelia]

lighting makes no difference to the fishless cycle, temperature can make a difference.

add ornaments - yes.

add plants - maybe: depending on what level of ammonia you are using, the ammonia may be harmful to some plants in high concentrations. If you are concerned about your plants, you can add a lower amount of ammonia, or wait to add plants until your cycle is complete. Another option is what's called a "silent cycle", where you plant ~30% of your tank by volume, give your plants a few weeks to establish themselves, and then do a fish-in cycle with the plants there (which if all goes well will result in no ammonia or nitrites registering because your plants will consume them as they are produced).

this has more details: https://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/

 

[Salts155R]

lighting makes no difference to the fishless cycle, temperature can make a difference.

add ornaments - yes.

add plants - maybe: depending on what level of ammonia you are using, the ammonia may be harmful to some plants in high concentrations. If you are concerned about your plants, you can add a lower amount of ammonia, or wait to add plants until your cycle is complete. Another option is what's called a "silent cycle", where you plant ~30% of your tank by volume, give your plants a few weeks to establish themselves, and then do a fish-in cycle with the plants there (which if all goes well will result in no ammonia or nitrites registering because your plants will consume them as they are produced).

this has more details: https://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/

Awesome, thank you for the detailed response.

I did a silent cycle on my smaller tank and a fish in cycle many years ago. The silent cycle went ok but not seeing any cycling was as still is a bit worrying (I’m still expecting a spike). The fish in cycle was stressful for me so for the fish it must have been awful.

I’m going to cycle with around 3-5 ppm of ammonia. The tank is up to temperature and I have de chlorinated and added filter starter.

i haven’t added any ornaments yet as I’m still deciding what to add so will it be ok to add during the cycle or will it mess things up ?

 

[Essjay]

You can add ornaments whenever you want to during cycling. Live plants will alter the progress of the cycle, slightly to a lot depending on how many plants.

Just to check - you are going to use this method? https://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/

 

[Salts155R]

You can add ornaments whenever you want to during cycling. Live plants will alter the progress of the cycle, slightly to a lot depending on how many plants.

Just to check - you are going to use this method? https://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/

Yup I’m going with that method,
I’ve add about 20L of cycled tank water from my other tank as well which brings me to my next question.

on the instructions is say to add 1/2 the original does when you start to see nitrite and the ammonia drop to 1ppm (normally after 12-15 days).
day 2 and I’m at that already, I’m guessing adding the other tank water has helped. Shall I add the 1/2 dose as instructed

 

[Essjay]

It's 1/3 dose, not 1/2 dose.

How much ammonia have you added so far?
In brief summary
1. Add enough ammonia to get 3 ppm. (dose #1)
2. Test every 3rd day till you get a reading of ammonia below 0.75 and nitrite above 2.0.
3. Add the same amount of ammonia you added in step 1 - enough to get 3 ppm (dose #2)
4. Test every other day. You are now waiting till you get ammonia at zero, then again zero in the test 2 days later.
5. Once you have these two zero ammonias (that is, two zeros two days apart) add enough ammonia to get 1 ppm (dose #3) - this is one third of the ammonia you added for dose #1 and dose #2 [this dose is expected around day 21 to day 27]
6. Test every day until you reach a day where ammonia is under 0.25 and nitrite is under 1.0
7. Add enough ammonia to get 3 ppm (the same amount as dose #1 and dose #2)
8. Test next day. If ammonia and nitrite are zero, the cycle is finished. Do a big water change and get fish. But if one or both are not zero, go from step 6 again.

 

[Essjay]

Water contains very few of the bacteria we want to grow. Certainly nowhere near enough to speed up the cycle. Filter media from a mature tank placed inside the filter of the cycling tank will speed it up.


The timing given in that method are not set in stone. The method says that step 5 should be reached in 21 to 27 days but mine only reached step 2 in 21 days. It will be shorter if a source of the bacteria is added (mature filter media, bottled bacteria) and longer if the water supply contains fewer bacteria than usual.

 

[Salts155R]

It's 1/3 dose, not 1/2 dose.

How much ammonia have you added so far?
In brief summary
1. Add enough ammonia to get 3 ppm. (dose #1)
2. Test every 3rd day till you get a reading of ammonia below 0.75 and nitrite above 2.0.
3. Add the same amount of ammonia you added in step 1 - enough to get 3 ppm (dose #2)
4. Test every other day. You are now waiting till you get ammonia at zero, then again zero in the test 2 days later.
5. Once you have these two zero ammonias (that is, two zeros two days apart) add enough ammonia to get 1 ppm (dose #3) - this is one third of the ammonia you added for dose #1 and dose #2 [this dose is expected around day 21 to day 27]
6. Test every day until you reach a day where ammonia is under 0.25 and nitrite is under 1.0
7. Add enough ammonia to get 3 ppm (the same amount as dose #1 and dose #2)
8. Test next day. If ammonia and nitrite are zero, the cycle is finished. Do a big water change and get fish. But if one or both are not zero, go from step 6 again.

Ok so day 1 yesterday was first dose, 3ppm.
as I added cycled water from another tank I thought I would check today and readings are as follows
PH 7
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 2.0
Nitrate 10

added another dose to reach 3ppm again so will test again tomorrow.

thanks for the detailed list, that’s awesome.
I’m guessing adding the water from another tank almost creates an instant cycle

 

[Essjay]

The water should have no effect because the bacteria we grow during cycling live in the biofilm which is tightly bound to the surfaces in the tank. They don't live in the water, though there may be a few dislodged ones floating in the water.


While there is nitrite in the water, don't take much notice of nitrate. Nitrate testers work by converting nitrate into nitrite then testing nitrite so if there's any nitrite in the water the nitrate test will pick that up as well, making nitrate seem higher than it really is.

 

[Salts155R]

The water should have no effect because the bacteria we grow during cycling live in the biofilm which is tightly bound to the surfaces in the tank. They don't live in the water, though there may be a few dislodged ones floating in the water.


While there is nitrite in the water, don't take much notice of nitrate. Nitrate testers work by converting nitrate into nitrite then testing nitrite so if there's any nitrite in the water the nitrate test will pick that up as well, making nitrate seem higher than it really is.

I did wash a few ornaments in the bucket of water I added and the water was from a quick gravel vac too so a possibility from that.

Oh right that makes a bit of sense, basically when there is nitrite in the water the nitrate test will show some as well. Only when the nitrite is 0 and nitrate is up is a true reading so to speak

 

[Essjay]

Oh right that makes a bit of sense, basically when there is nitrite in the water the nitrate test will show some as well. Only when the nitrite is 0 and nitrate is up is a true reading so to speak

Yes


Washing the decor may well have helped - especially if you were quite rough.

 

[Salts155R]

Yes


Washing the decor may well have helped - especially if you were quite rough.

Couple of things was a bit brown so I used my scrubbing brush I have for the tank to give them a gentle but good clean

 

[Salts155R]

Yes


Washing the decor may well have helped - especially if you were quite rough.

Will see what happens tomorrow if the ammonia drops again

 

[Salts155R]

Right I’m now at a complete zero on ammonia but the nitrite is through the roof, hits 5ppm in seconds
Should I add another ammonia dose or wait for the nitrite to come down a little

 

[Essjay]

It's 1/3 dose, not 1/2 dose.

How much ammonia have you added so far?
In brief summary
1. Add enough ammonia to get 3 ppm. (dose #1)
2. Test every 3rd day till you get a reading of ammonia below 0.75 and nitrite above 2.0.
3. Add the same amount of ammonia you added in step 1 - enough to get 3 ppm (dose #2)
4. Test every other day. You are now waiting till you get ammonia at zero, then again zero in the test 2 days later.
5. Once you have these two zero ammonias (that is, two zeros two days apart) add enough ammonia to get 1 ppm (dose #3) - this is one third of the ammonia you added for dose #1 and dose #2 [this dose is expected around day 21 to day 27]
6. Test every day until you reach a day where ammonia is under 0.25 and nitrite is under 1.0
7. Add enough ammonia to get 3 ppm (the same amount as dose #1 and dose #2)
8. Test next day. If ammonia and nitrite are zero, the cycle is finished. Do a big water change and get fish. But if one or both are not zero, go from step 6 again.

Going back to this, where are you? Step #2 or stage #5?
If it's step #2, add enough ammonia to get 3 ppm but if it's step #5 add just enough to get 1 ppm.