Fish Less Cycle For My New Tank

[owen.h.lewis]

Hi All,
I am setting up an 80 litre tank which has an inbuilt filter (with splashbar), inbuilt lighting and a decent heater.

I am looking to add the substrate, plants & any other decor such as rocks/wood to the tank, then fill it up with my tap water which is very neutral.

I will then add any chemicals needed to the water such as tap water converter, etc.

Once this is done, do i just need to wait untill all the good bacteria develop (so they can manage the bad bacteria).

Is there a general rule of thumb as to how long i must wait before i put my guppies in?

If i am cycling fishless, will i need to add anything else to the tank.

Thanks in advance.

Owen

 

[owen.h.lewis]

Hi All,
I am setting up an 80 litre tank which has an inbuilt filter (with splashbar), inbuilt lighting and a decent heater.

I am looking to add the substrate, plants & any other decor such as rocks/wood to the tank, then fill it up with my tap water which is very neutral.

I will then add any chemicals needed to the water such as tap water converter, etc.

Once this is done, do i just need to wait untill all the good bacteria develop (so they can manage the bad bacteria).

Is there a general rule of thumb as to how long i must wait before i put my guppies in?

If i am cycling fishless, will i need to add anything else to the tank.

Thanks in advance.

Owen

Also just thought i'd ask, i currently have a 120litre tank running in my room, can i use that filter media in my other tank to speed up the process?

Cheers.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Owen and Welcome to TFF

If you asked that question at the LFS (Local Fish Shop) they'd probably say "No, you're ready for guppies." BUT, luckily you happened to have gone to the trouble to search and you've stumbled onto a -real- hobbyist forum so hopefully you've now got a chance to learn some fascinatingly weird stuff about what it -really- takes to prepare a tank for fish!

The missing ingredient you were just about to put your finger on is ammonia. Ammonia (NH3/NH4+) has nitrogen (N) in it and is an important substance in the a cycle in the environmental sciences we call the "Nitrogen Cycle." This is where the term "cycle" comes from. We have to re-create this "cycle" in our aquarium and we want to do it -without- fish to produce the ammonia, so instead we use pure household ammonia that we try to find at places where they sell mops and brooms! It has to be free of dyes, fragrances and soaps, so when you shake it, it should not foam.

You can read all about this in our Beginners Resource Center. Have a read there and then come back and start to pump us with questions. Personally I find it to be fascinating stuff, quite entertaining and interesting in and of itself. You actually get into this whole thing of all the details of the best ways to grow two very specific species of bacteria in the filter and once those two colonies are established they form a wonderful "biofilter" that then is essential to caring for your fish.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[owen.h.lewis]

Hi Owen and Welcome to TFF

If you asked that question at the LFS (Local Fish Shop) they'd probably say "No, you're ready for guppies." BUT, luckily you happened to have gone to the trouble to search and you've stumbled onto a -real- hobbyist forum so hopefully you've now got a chance to learn some fascinatingly weird stuff about what it -really- takes to prepare a tank for fish!

The missing ingredient you were just about to put your finger on is ammonia. Ammonia (NH3/NH4+) has nitrogen (N) in it and is an important substance in the a cycle in the environmental sciences we call the "Nitrogen Cycle." This is where the term "cycle" comes from. We have to re-create this "cycle" in our aquarium and we want to do it -without- fish to produce the ammonia, so instead we use pure household ammonia that we try to find at places where they sell mops and brooms! It has to be free of dyes, fragrances and soaps, so when you shake it, it should not foam.

You can read all about this in our Beginners Resource Center. Have a read there and then come back and start to pump us with questions. Personally I find it to be fascinating stuff, quite entertaining and interesting in and of itself. You actually get into this whole thing of all the details of the best ways to grow two very specific species of bacteria in the filter and once those two colonies are established they form a wonderful "biofilter" that then is essential to caring for your fish.

~~waterdrop~~

excellent response.

Just a few questions....... could i use existing media filter from my current tank, and would this speed up the process or have any advantages Will i still require ammonia for this? Other than pure ammonia is there any commercial fish ammonia we can buy at the pet stores?

Thanks again

 

[fatheadminnow]

Hi Owen and Welcome to TFF

If you asked that question at the LFS (Local Fish Shop) they'd probably say "No, you're ready for guppies." BUT, luckily you happened to have gone to the trouble to search and you've stumbled onto a -real- hobbyist forum so hopefully you've now got a chance to learn some fascinatingly weird stuff about what it -really- takes to prepare a tank for fish!

The missing ingredient you were just about to put your finger on is ammonia. Ammonia (NH3/NH4+) has nitrogen (N) in it and is an important substance in the a cycle in the environmental sciences we call the "Nitrogen Cycle." This is where the term "cycle" comes from. We have to re-create this "cycle" in our aquarium and we want to do it -without- fish to produce the ammonia, so instead we use pure household ammonia that we try to find at places where they sell mops and brooms! It has to be free of dyes, fragrances and soaps, so when you shake it, it should not foam.

You can read all about this in our Beginners Resource Center. Have a read there and then come back and start to pump us with questions. Personally I find it to be fascinating stuff, quite entertaining and interesting in and of itself. You actually get into this whole thing of all the details of the best ways to grow two very specific species of bacteria in the filter and once those two colonies are established they form a wonderful "biofilter" that then is essential to caring for your fish.

~~waterdrop~~

excellent response.

Just a few questions....... could i use existing media filter from my current tank, and would this speed up the process or have any advantages Will i still require ammonia for this? Other than pure ammonia is there any commercial fish ammonia we can buy at the pet stores?

Thanks again

Good write-up by waterdrop!

Yes, by adding mature filter media from already established tank to a new filter will speed up the cycling time, because you are going to have bacteria present in the new filter to start out with, vs. no bacteria to start out with.

Once you have added some mature filter media to your new filter, and have it up and running in your new tank, you have to go through with a fishless cycle by adding house-hold ammonia.

House-hold ammonia can be found at your Local Hardware store.

So, read up on how to do a fishless cycle, and come back with your questions.

-FHM

 

[owen.h.lewis]

Hi Owen and Welcome to TFF

If you asked that question at the LFS (Local Fish Shop) they'd probably say "No, you're ready for guppies." BUT, luckily you happened to have gone to the trouble to search and you've stumbled onto a -real- hobbyist forum so hopefully you've now got a chance to learn some fascinatingly weird stuff about what it -really- takes to prepare a tank for fish!

The missing ingredient you were just about to put your finger on is ammonia. Ammonia (NH3/NH4+) has nitrogen (N) in it and is an important substance in the a cycle in the environmental sciences we call the "Nitrogen Cycle." This is where the term "cycle" comes from. We have to re-create this "cycle" in our aquarium and we want to do it -without- fish to produce the ammonia, so instead we use pure household ammonia that we try to find at places where they sell mops and brooms! It has to be free of dyes, fragrances and soaps, so when you shake it, it should not foam.

You can read all about this in our Beginners Resource Center. Have a read there and then come back and start to pump us with questions. Personally I find it to be fascinating stuff, quite entertaining and interesting in and of itself. You actually get into this whole thing of all the details of the best ways to grow two very specific species of bacteria in the filter and once those two colonies are established they form a wonderful "biofilter" that then is essential to caring for your fish.

~~waterdrop~~

excellent response.

Just a few questions....... could i use existing media filter from my current tank, and would this speed up the process or have any advantages Will i still require ammonia for this? Other than pure ammonia is there any commercial fish ammonia we can buy at the pet stores?

Thanks again

Good write-up by waterdrop!

Yes, by adding mature filter media from already established tank to a new filter will speed up the cycling time, because you are going to have bacteria present in the new filter to start out with, vs. no bacteria to start out with.

Once you have added some mature filter media to your new filter, and have it up and running in your new tank, you have to go through with a fishless cycle by adding house-hold ammonia.

House-hold ammonia can be found at your Local Hardware store.

So, read up on how to do a fishless cycle, and come back with your questions.

-FHM

In theory, because i will be using existing filter media, it will possess the bacteria to reduce the impact of ammonia & nitrite. Does this mean that i can add fish to the tank, and because im using existing media i have a higher chance of keeping them alive throughout the cycle? With the help of Amtrite down etc?

 

[waterdrop]

No, you're doing the classic beginner thing of trying to talk yourself into fish in the tank and out of the real fishless cycle.

To "do it right" you have to just accept it. The fish introduction needs to not happen until the filter is processing 5ppm of ammonia into zero ppm of ammonia and zero ppm of nitrite(NO2) within 12 hours after the 5ppm of ammonia was added, and it needs to have been doing this for about a week without a glitch.

Once a filter to accomplishing this you can introduce just about any fish population to the tank and they will love it.

Mature media seeding does not change the details of what you do in a fishless cycle at all, it just hopefully "moves you ahead in the line" and cuts out some of the wait time. By the way, speaking of "wait" time, its not really that: doing your fishless cycle and posting about it here in your thread turns out to be a perfect time period to digest and learn a ton of other startup information that beginners need, in fact its almost not enough time for beginners to go through all the mechanics of figuring out a really successful stocking plan and other things that seem easy when you are new to it but actually entail a lot more decisions once you start to get into it.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[owen.h.lewis]

No, you're doing the classic beginner thing of trying to talk yourself into fish in the tank and out of the real fishless cycle.

To "do it right" you have to just accept it. The fish introduction needs to not happen until the filter is processing 5ppm of ammonia into zero ppm of ammonia and zero ppm of nitrite(NO2) within 12 hours after the 5ppm of ammonia was added, and it needs to have been doing this for about a week without a glitch.

Once a filter to accomplishing this you can introduce just about any fish population to the tank and they will love it.

Mature media seeding does not change the details of what you do in a fishless cycle at all, it just hopefully "moves you ahead in the line" and cuts out some of the wait time. By the way, speaking of "wait" time, its not really that: doing your fishless cycle and posting about it here in your thread turns out to be a perfect time period to digest and learn a ton of other startup information that beginners need, in fact its almost not enough time for beginners to go through all the mechanics of figuring out a really successful stocking plan and other things that seem easy when you are new to it but actually entail a lot more decisions once you start to get into it.

~~waterdrop~~

fair enough Waterdrop, i was just checking. I have no issue doing a fishless cycle as i already have a tank up and running. The tank i have is approx 160 litres and has around 20 fish in there, i cycled that tank and from day one had lots of fish in it, i guess i was just lucky that all the cards fell my way.

i have no issues doing a fishless cycle, as i have guppy fry in a breeding tank, that in about 4 - 8 weeks will be too big for that, hence why i am getting another tank to put them in and start my mexican river biotope.

im new to the fish forums but starting to get a good idea about fish keeping as a whole, although i am definately learning something new everyday.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Good stuff from waterdrop! As always...lol.

Glad to here that you are getting the hang of things around here!

Like you have already witnessed, it is priceless to learn about the nitrogen cycle, and how to properly cycle a tank.

Also, it may not take 4-8 weeks for your tank to cycle just because you are adding mature filter media, which is going to kick start the cycle a little. Since you are now going to have the beneficial bacteria present in the filter, it won't take as long to colonize more bacteria to process the 5 ppm of ammonia to zero in 12 hours.

You should also make a new thread, or build off of this one, about your daily water readings of your tank during your cycle, as if there is any speed bumps along the way, we here and can help you out.

Also, it is neat seeing peoples cycling journals, and how they progress throughout the entire process.

-FHM

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, since you have a mature tank, you should be able to greatly speed the process of the fishless cycling of your new tank.

I sometimes feel its ideal to get the new filter running, get the correct ammonia, begin dosing the tank and testing the tank to make sure you know how much of -your- ammonia makes -your- tank get up to 4 to 5ppm of ammonia concentration and only then, after all that, figure out and perform the seeding of the new filter via the mature media transfer. You can use up to 1/3 of the biomedia from your mature filter. Don't use more than that or you'll compromise the old tank. Be sure to plan it out as you may need to buy a new fitted sponge for the old filter, to keep things tight, if that's the type biomedia you will be cutting and moving. Likewise for loose media like ceramic rings or ceramic gravel, you may want to pick up some fresh media for the old filter.

~~waterdrop~~