Fish Keep Dying

[Assaye]

Well jpeterson, maybe we should discuss it some more before we decide on the right kind of change.

Assaye, I didn't really express myself well. I don't have any problem with the technique of cleaning out the traces of ammonia with a zeolite resin that's after the biomedia in the water path - the theory of the technique is ok. What I worry about is that people have reported the stingray to be so bad at preventing pass-through that it raises my worry that if a stingray comes with fresh zeolite that happens to be a strong-enough resin, it could effectively wipe all the ammonia out of the tank (a small tank as in this case) while the biomedia was experiencing a low exposure to needed levels of oxygen and ammonia because of pass-through (water able to get past the media without having to go through it.)

I have not owned a stingray though and am basing my thoughts on cases I've read here on TFF. I can't remember now but maybe you've run one of these Assaye? It could be that I've just been erroneously given too negative an impression about their performance.

~~waterdrop~~

I run one in my 30 litre betta tank and it works like a charm. The zeolite gave a much needed boost when I had ammonia problems and never had a problem with the water flowing through the media properly.

However, that only proves mine works and doesn't prove anything general about the make.

I think only time will tell if jpeterson's Stingray will work. It certainly wasn't responsible for the swift deaths. I would always have a back-up filter on hand but a good fishless cycle will prove once and for all whether he's got a good or bad filter.

 

[waterdrop]

Well then I agree, probably better to give it a shot with the stingray than the old fluval 1 don't you think? WD

 

[OldMan47]

If there is a cycled Fluval 1, why not use it WD? A Fluval 1 is a decent filter but has very little flexibility as far as media.
Another thing that I seem to remember from reading here on TFF is that the "filter start" that people get at P@H is really a source of ammonia for cycling the filter. If that is the case, the cycle may have barely started before the first fish were introduced. Since the ammonia would have started out high due to the filter start, the tank may well have had lethal levels of ammonia in it. The red gills and extreme stress levels in the newly introduced fish also point in that direction.

 

[waterdrop]

Oh, well I may have read that wrong! I was thinking "an established tank in the past" and that now it was just sitting around, having long ago been cleaned out. But you're right, it probably sounds more like it -does- have some beneficial bacteria in it, certainly if its currently in use (although that begs the question of whether its needed to support some -other- fish I guess. (?)) I'm also not familiar with the Fluval 1, so good to hear that it would be decent.

Good call on the "filter start" likely being the ammonia source. I was thinking that the red gill symptom sounded like ammonia damage/response. That may very well explain it. Glad to have you back to balance things, I was also trying to acknowledge to Assaye about the Stingray maybe being better than I've made it out to be the last few cases where there's been one involved.

WD

 

[jpeterson]

Ok I am very very sorry guys but if we could I would like to slow down as i am a little confused about the whole process! The stores where I have bough various stuff have basically told me "Put the decoration and water in, add water treatments we supply, wait a week then add fish". This clearly is NOT the case and has made me feel very very cruel and stupid. I would like if someone could to explain what i need to do now for the next stage. This is what i have already done:

Put decoration in after cleaning it with boiling water
Put luke-warm tap water in
Adding "Tapsafe" and "Filter start"
Getting the water up to temp (78f)

The water has been standing for a week and a half now. I would like to know what i need to do next to get it a step closer. If we could do it in simple stages it would be very useful for me. *I like to take my time and learn the detail rather then rushing into it*.

 

[Dan-CR4]

Ok I am very very sorry guys but if we could I would like to slow down as i am a little confused about the whole process! The stores where I have bough various stuff have basically told me "Put the decoration and water in, add water treatments we supply, wait a week then add fish". This clearly is NOT the case and has made me feel very very cruel and stupid. I would like if someone could to explain what i need to do now for the next stage. This is what i have already done:

Put decoration in after cleaning it with boiling water
Put luke-warm tap water in
Adding "Tapsafe" and "Filter start"
Getting the water up to temp (78f)

The water has been standing for a week and a half now. I would like to know what i need to do next to get it a step closer. If we could do it in simple stages it would be very useful for me. *I like to take my time and learn the detail rather then rushing into it*.

I know you must feel crawl as what has happened but its not your fault, these pet shops/LFS seem to give the same bad advice time and time again. You have now found a really helpful place with people that know what they are doing, and will help you give your fish the best start they can have in a tank. Im still new to all this as I just got finished doing my first fishless cycle Just over a week ago. Waterdrop and Oldman47 saw me through and now my fish are loving there new cycled tank and i did not need to buy any expensive (non working) bacteria mixtures that the LFS will try palm you off with.

If you are starting from afresh with a non cycled tank, then the best way will be to do a fishless cycle using household ammonia availble from boots in the UK and Ace Hardware(I think) in USA. other places do sell it but that the main stores people seem to talk about.

As i say there are some real good guys here, stick with them and they will see you through.

 

[Assaye]

Ok I am very very sorry guys but if we could I would like to slow down as i am a little confused about the whole process! The stores where I have bough various stuff have basically told me "Put the decoration and water in, add water treatments we supply, wait a week then add fish". This clearly is NOT the case and has made me feel very very cruel and stupid. I would like if someone could to explain what i need to do now for the next stage. This is what i have already done:

Put decoration in after cleaning it with boiling water
Put luke-warm tap water in
Adding "Tapsafe" and "Filter start"
Getting the water up to temp (78f)

The water has been standing for a week and a half now. I would like to know what i need to do next to get it a step closer. If we could do it in simple stages it would be very useful for me. *I like to take my time and learn the detail rather then rushing into it*.

First step - buy a decent test kit for ammonia and nitrite. Most liquid test kits (such as the API, Sera, Salifert or Nutrafin kits) are accurate enought for our purposes but the strip tests should be avoid due to their increased innacuracy. You need to know exactly what is going on in the tank. In the short term, get your water tested by somewhere like P@H or a local pet shop and post the results in this thread. You need your own test kit for cycling and emergencies when it isn't practical to go to the shop every day or twice a day. We can talk about how to proceed from there.

Second step - read up on the nitrogen cycle and the different methods of cycling a tank here.

Third step - choose which method suits you but be aware that if something goes wrong with a fish-in cycle, it is a disaster for the fish.

Fourth step - start your chosen cycle having discussed the options here and make a post here about it. If you include your test results and water changes in the post (like a diary) we can help you with any questions as you go along.

Fifth step - enjoy your cycled tank!

There are many reasons why your fish might have died, here are a few of the reasons mentioned:

1) Fish not acclimatised properly
2) Ammonia in tap water
3) Ammonia from a 'cheap' water conditioner (what brand is your "Tapsafe"?)
4) Ammonia from the "Filter Start" product
5) Some other poison in the tank that we can't indentify
6) Already weak/sick fish

Good luck!

 

[jpeterson]

Ok I am very very sorry guys but if we could I would like to slow down as i am a little confused about the whole process! The stores where I have bough various stuff have basically told me "Put the decoration and water in, add water treatments we supply, wait a week then add fish". This clearly is NOT the case and has made me feel very very cruel and stupid. I would like if someone could to explain what i need to do now for the next stage. This is what i have already done:

Put decoration in after cleaning it with boiling water
Put luke-warm tap water in
Adding "Tapsafe" and "Filter start"
Getting the water up to temp (78f)

The water has been standing for a week and a half now. I would like to know what i need to do next to get it a step closer. If we could do it in simple stages it would be very useful for me. *I like to take my time and learn the detail rather then rushing into it*.

First step - buy a decent test kit for ammonia and nitrite. Most liquid test kits (such as the API, Sera, Salifert or Nutrafin kits) are accurate enought for our purposes but the strip tests should be avoid due to their increased innacuracy. You need to know exactly what is going on in the tank. In the short term, get your water tested by somewhere like P@H or a local pet shop and post the results in this thread. You need your own test kit for cycling and emergencies when it isn't practical to go to the shop every day or twice a day. We can talk about how to proceed from there.

Second step - read up on the nitrogen cycle and the different methods of cycling a tank here.

Third step - choose which method suits you but be aware that if something goes wrong with a fish-in cycle, it is a disaster for the fish.

Fourth step - start your chosen cycle having discussed the options here and make a post here about it. If you include your test results and water changes in the post (like a diary) we can help you with any questions as you go along.

Fifth step - enjoy your cycled tank!

There are many reasons why your fish might have died, here are a few of the reasons mentioned:

1) Fish not acclimatised properly
2) Ammonia in tap water
3) Ammonia from a 'cheap' water conditioner (what brand is your "Tapsafe"?)
4) Ammonia from the "Filter Start" product
5) Some other poison in the tank that we can't indentify
6) Already weak/sick fish

Good luck!

Ok for step one I am looking at buying the "API - Freshwater Master Test Kit". On the website it says

This kit tests tap water and aquarium water for five different parameters that affect the health of freshwater fish: pH, High Range pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. Highly accuate and economical. Unique, transparent dome allows clear view of contents. Includes all tests required to test the nitrogen cycle. Kit includes computer-calibrated and laminated color cards, 4 glass test tubes and holding tray. Also contains complete, step-by-step instruction booklet, including information on how to correct unsafe water conditions. Compact and easy to store. Over 800 tests.

Does this sound like the right one to buy?

 

[abih2005]

Yah indeed! It's a little expensive but worth it - I was like you a few weeks ago, unwittingly killed a bunch of fish cos P@H gave me S*** advice, denied any wrong doing when I mentioned cycling to them! Get that kit then measure ammonia and nitrite and nitrate, all will harm fish in high quantities, the former two should be close to (if not) zero and nitrates close to zero as poss. If I were you.... take the fish back, demand they allow you to return in a few weeks to collect the equivalent fish back once the tank has cycled.

 

[jpeterson]

Yah indeed! It's a little expensive but worth it - I was like you a few weeks ago, unwittingly killed a bunch of fish cos P@H gave me S*** advice, denied any wrong doing when I mentioned cycling to them! Get that kit then measure ammonia and nitrite and nitrate, all will harm fish in high quantities, the former two should be close to (if not) zero and nitrates close to zero as poss. If I were you.... take the fish back, demand they allow you to return in a few weeks to collect the equivalent fish back once the tank has cycled.

I actually bough 1 catfish and 5 neons from P@H. I followed their advise so therefore I should be allowed to get a refund or more fish. I will be ringing them don't worry. I got 5 rainbow fish from another shop after the ones at P@H as I though "P@H rubbish quality". They also died so I knew something was wrong.

 

[abih2005]

Make sure you go back with the receipt and fish - don't bother calling, just go in and corner someone, throw in some cycling lingo and see how they respond and basically say you were given extremely poor advice. If they try and sell you products like stress zyme just say you're fishless cycling with ammonia (from boots).

 

[jpeterson]

I no longer have the fish as I thought it was my fault the first time I put fish in which were from P@H. I also know some big people in the pet industry such as Ken Sturck(sp?) the owner of Burgess. I recently got sold a pregnant guinea pig from P@H so I contacted Ken and he got things sorted for me. They now sex guinea pigs and keep them in separate cages. If I have to I will let him know and get them to advise cycling. Also what's this ammonia from boots and how much is it?

 

[abih2005]

White bottle red cap, 500ml ammonia for your fishless cycle - about £1.75.

 

[Dan-CR4]

Ok for step one I am looking at buying the "API - Freshwater Master Test Kit". On the website it says

This kit tests tap water and aquarium water for five different parameters that affect the health of freshwater fish: pH, High Range pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. Highly accuate and economical. Unique, transparent dome allows clear view of contents. Includes all tests required to test the nitrogen cycle. Kit includes computer-calibrated and laminated color cards, 4 glass test tubes and holding tray. Also contains complete, step-by-step instruction booklet, including information on how to correct unsafe water conditions. Compact and easy to store. Over 800 tests.

Does this sound like the right one to buy?

if it looks like this one : Master test kit thats the one you need.

I got mine off ebay on Buy It Now for around £17 delivered. in P@H i think they are around the £30 mark.

 

[jpeterson]

Ok for step one I am looking at buying the "API - Freshwater Master Test Kit". On the website it says

This kit tests tap water and aquarium water for five different parameters that affect the health of freshwater fish: pH, High Range pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. Highly accuate and economical. Unique, transparent dome allows clear view of contents. Includes all tests required to test the nitrogen cycle. Kit includes computer-calibrated and laminated color cards, 4 glass test tubes and holding tray. Also contains complete, step-by-step instruction booklet, including information on how to correct unsafe water conditions. Compact and easy to store. Over 800 tests.

Does this sound like the right one to buy?

if it looks like this one : Master test kit thats the one you need.

I got mine off ebay on Buy It Now for around £17 delivered. in P@H i think they are around the £30 mark.

Yus its ordered off ebay now