Fish in cycle question

[strangeworld2002]

Currently doing a fish in cycle just 2 guppies it was going to be 3 but one didn't make it presumably due to stress or illness as it wasn't a spike. I have always done it this way using Seachem Prime to detoxify and Stability to add Bacteria. Fish have been in 2 days been fed a small amount and I haven't seen any Ammonia yet and I thought I would with it being a 100 litre. I am used to cycling much bigger tanks and from what I can remember it showed pretty quickly in the past. Could it be that this time I am using real plants? I have 3 large Java Ferns and 5 Cryptocoryne in the tank.

 

[GaryE]

Java ferns and Crypts don't grab a lot of nutrients, as plants go.

I wouldn't worry. I have done many many cycles but never used a test kit for one. Slow and steady wins the race, and it'll take weeks. I've never used anything but a dechlorinator to do it. The plants seed the tank. The fish are unharmed and go on to live long healthy lives.

I'm a great believer in 'social cycling', where aquarist friends or fellow club members cycle filters for each other. In these times where so many people don't want to meet face to face, that's become a very old school way of doing things.

 

[Byron]

The plants may save your fish. These mentioned are slow growing, but two small fish in 100 liters is not likely to overload the system. Feed very sparingly though. You may not see ammonia or nitrite at all; nor nitrate at least until more fish are in the tank down the road.

Briefly, how this works...aquatic plants use amonia/ammonium as their nitrogen source, and they are fast at taking this up. Fast growing plants, and floating are the absolute best for this, take up the vast majority of ammonia.

 

[Kyanite14]

Plants take up a good amount of ammonia from fish waste, even if you have slow growing plants like what you mentioned. I wouldn’t be too concerned about it, and I wouldn’t add any more fish. Guppies are usually fairly sensitive, so adding more ammonia producing fish may kill them. The cycle should still eventually establish with just the two, it just may take a bit longer from the plants.

 

[strangeworld2002]

Java ferns and Crypts don't grab a lot of nutrients, as plants go.

I wouldn't worry. I have done many many cycles but never used a test kit for one. Slow and steady wins the race, and it'll take weeks. I've never used anything but a dechlorinator to do it. The plants seed the tank. The fish are unharmed and go on to live long healthy lives.

I'm a great believer in 'social cycling', where aquarist friends or fellow club members cycle filters for each other. In these times where so many people don't want to meet face to face, that's become a very old school way of doing things.

OK so I am confused. I am now seeing 5ppm of nitrates 3 days after adding fish and dosing with Seachem Stability. Could it be the plants causing that and making me think its cycled? I know it can't be but I did use some old media in the filter but its been sat there for 10 years so surely not.

 

[Kyanite14]

OK so I am confused. I am now seeing 5ppm of nitrates 3 days after adding fish and dosing with Seachem Stability. Could it be the plants causing that and making me think its cycled? I know it can't be but I did use some old media in the filter but its been sat there for 10 years so surely not.

Nitrate levels mean your tank is close to finishing the cycle, what are your ammonia and nitrite levels though? The plants will actually absorb some of the nitrate, not produce. As long as the plants aren’t dying they should produce ammonia either.

 

[strangeworld2002]

Ammonia and Nitrite are 0

 

[Essjay]

Aquatic plants take up ammonia rather than nitrate; they only turn to nitrate if there is no ammonia. This is because they have to turn nitrate back into ammonia to use it and that wastes energy. When there are enough plants, nitrate is not made in the tank as the plants use virtually all the ammonia made by fish.


If the tank nitrate is now 5 ppm, what was it when you first filled the tank? In other words, how much nitrate is in your tap water?

 

[Kyanite14]

Ammonia and Nitrite are 0

Well if ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0, and you have nitrate, I would say your tank is cycled. I’d wait a few days to add any fish though just to make sure the cycle is stable.

 

[strangeworld2002]

Aquatic plants take up ammonia rather than nitrate; they only turn to nitrate if there is no ammonia. This is because they have to turn nitrate back into ammonia to use it and that wastes energy. When there are enough plants, nitrate is not made in the tank as the plants use virtually all the ammonia made by fish.


If the tank nitrate is now 5 ppm, what was it when you first filled the tank? In other words, how much nitrate is in your tap water?

According to United utilities it is 16.4 for nitrates in our tap water but I tested on day 1 and it was definitely 0

 

[Essjay]

2 guppies in a 100 litre (26 gallon) tank are not going to make very much ammonia. The plants you have will be more than capable of removing that amount.

If your water provider says your nitrate level is 16.4, it is unlikely for your tap nitrate to be zero. What are you using to test nitrate, strips or a liquid tester? if it's a liquid, are you shaking one of the bottle like the instructions say?

 

[strangeworld2002]

2 guppies in a 100 litre (26 gallon) tank are not going to make very much ammonia. The plants you have will be more than capable of removing that amount.

If your water provider says your nitrate level is 16.4, it is unlikely for your tap nitrate to be zero. What are you using to test nitrate, strips or a liquid tester? if it's a liquid, are you shaking one of the bottle like the instructions say?

Absolutely. It is the API liquid kit all in date and instructions followed. I'm going to test again tomorrow but I am inclined to agree that the bio load with the plants isn't enough. If that is the case should I add some more guppies and continue to dose with Prime to detoxify and stability to increase bacteria? Or just stick and let it get there slowly? I'm just worried that I can't gauge it at the moment.

 

[Byron]

Absolutely. It is the API liquid kit all in date and instructions followed. I'm going to test again tomorrow but I am inclined to agree that the bio load with the plants isn't enough. If that is the case should I add some more guppies and continue to dose with Prime to detoxify and stability to increase bacteria? Or just stick and let it get there slowly? I'm just worried that I can't gauge it at the moment.

You are asking for trouble. Get some floating plants (Water Sprite, Water Lettuce, Frogbit, or stem plants like Pennywort) and when they are showing signs of growth (floaters are rapid growing so this won't take long) you will be certain of having enough ammonia-drinkers (!) and adding fish will not cause issues.

You may never see ammonia or nitrite--hopefully--with plants. Nitrate will be zero too, at least for the first few months, unless it comes in the source water.

 

[strangeworld2002]

Just tested my water again and it is Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0 and Nitrate 5ppm.

 

[Kyanite14]

Personally I think you’re good to go, I don’t know what the others think. But if you’re able to add ammonia and it turns to nitrate within 24 hours that means you’re good to go by most cycling standards.