Fish in cycle/PH-KH-GH problems?

[Kevino]

Hey guys I’m completely new to this site so hopefully I can get some help here,
So I just got into the hobby like 3 weeks ago and started buying everything without looking online or asking people about cycles, water parameters, etc. Anyway I got a 37 gallon with an Aquaclear50 and sponge filter running with just a Raphael catfish. I have been doing constant water changes to keep the Ammonia and Nitrite down to atleast .25 while using Prime as a Water conditioner and Stability I’m currently ready at .25 Ammomia .25 Nitrite and 2-4 Nitrate, it’s going slowly I believe which is fine especially with a fish in there. Hopefully I am going on the right direction though lol? The big problem I am having is with my KH/PH and GH I believe. My tank water KH is at 2 drops (API LIQUID TRST KIT) has been since I started, PH is at 7.0 but it does go down to maybe around 6.2-6.4 atleast a couple times a week unfortunately. I have tried adding crushed coral inside my filter and it seems to help with PH at times but my KH is still at 2 drops(0-50) My GH is at 9 drops(160) currently. My tap water KH is even worse at just a drop and PH at 7.6. Can anyone help please and thanks?

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF.

First point to be made...do not start using additives to adjust the water chemistry. This is a big mistake many new aquarists make as they are told by store staff they need a pH of "x" and must have buffering (KH), etc, etc. With fish in the tank it is always extremely dangerous to mess with the chemistry. An aquarium is an ecosystem that operates on natural laws. Notwithstanding it is an artificial ecosystem, the natural laws still operate and these are going to be impacted (usually negatively) with every attempt to adjust parameters. At the same time, everything in the water is moving into the fish by osmosis, entering the bloodstream and being carried to the internal organs. This can be devastating to most fish.

First, can you give us some test numbers for the tap water on its own. GH, KH, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test all of these, just the tap water. For pH, let a glass of tap water sit 24 hours and then test the pH. The other tests can be done on fresh tap water. This will tell you (and us) exactly what is in the source water.

The pH is the result of the GH, KH and dissolved CO2 primarily. This is why you let the CO2 out-gas before testing pH. This is not necessary for aquarium water, just fresh tap water.

Second, test the aquarium water for the same parameters and conditions. BTW, "parameters" refer to the GH, KH, pH and temperature. "Conditions" is best used to refer to ammonia, nitrite, nitrate.

Third, does your water authority use chlorine, or chloramine? The latter can result in low ammonia, so this is worth sorting out.

Using Stability, with just one fish in a 37g tank, you should usually not be seeing ammonia or nitrite unless you are overfeeding or not doing water changes, or these substances are in the source water. The data from the above will tell us where things stand.

 

[Kevino]

Welcome to TFF.

First point to be made...do not start using additives to adjust the water chemistry. This is a big mistake many new aquarists make as they are told by store staff they need a pH of "x" and must have buffering (KH), etc, etc. With fish in the tank it is always extremely dangerous to mess with the chemistry. An aquarium is an ecosystem that operates on natural laws. Notwithstanding it is an artificial ecosystem, the natural laws still operate and these are going to be impacted (usually negatively) with every attempt to adjust parameters. At the same time, everything in the water is moving into the fish by osmosis, entering the bloodstream and being carried to the internal organs. This can be devastating to most fish.

First, can you give us some test numbers for the tap water on its own. GH, KH, pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Test all of these, just the tap water. For pH, let a glass of tap water sit 24 hours and then test the pH. The other tests can be done on fresh tap water. This will tell you (and us) exactly what is in the source water.

The pH is the result of the GH, KH and dissolved CO2 primarily. This is why you let the CO2 out-gas before testing pH. This is not necessary for aquarium water, just fresh tap water.

Second, test the aquarium water for the same parameters and conditions. BTW, "parameters" refer to the GH, KH, pH and temperature. "Conditions" is best used to refer to ammonia, nitrite, nitrate.

Third, does your water authority use chlorine, or chloramine? The latter can result in low ammonia, so this is worth sorting out.

Using Stability, with just one fish in a 37g tank, you should usually not be seeing ammonia or nitrite unless you are overfeeding or not doing water changes, or these substances are in the source water. The data from the above will tell us where things stand.

Hey Byron thanks for the reply and sorry for the late reply out working all day. But ok thanks for explaining things better for me. One thing I did left out was that when I first bought the tank and fish I also got a couple goldfish without knowing nothing about aquarium honestly, I had them for about a week till a relative was able to take them away and put them in his pond for a bigger and better space so I’m guessing since they are dirty fish I was able to climb the Ammonia up to 2ppm and then nitrite showed up and it went to 4 ppm(this was a couple weeks ago) I ended up just doing a water change to bring it down and it both went down to about 0-.25 ppm but no Nitrate still showing, so hopefully I didn’t kill off my BB or it’s just taking so long for Nitrate to appear. And yes these are my readings for
Tap Water:
PH(will sit in a glass cup for 24 hours)
GH-4 Drops (50-70ppm?)
KH- 1 drop(20ppm or less?)
Ammonia- 0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate 0

Tank water
PH- 7ppm
GH- 9 drops (160ppm)
KH -3 drops (50 ppm or maybe a bit less)
Ammomia- .25
Nitrite - in between 0-.25
And Nitrate- 2-3 ppm

It seems my tank cycle is stalled as it’s been like this for a few days now smh, but eventually The end goal here is to try to get a Community tank going when it’s all said and done and I’m not sure if these numbers are acceptable?.
Again thanks for the help

 

[Byron]

Hey Byron thanks for the reply and sorry for the late reply out working all day. But ok thanks for explaining things better for me. One thing I did left out was that when I first bought the tank and fish I also got a couple goldfish without knowing nothing about aquarium honestly, I had them for about a week till a relative was able to take them away and put them in his pond for a bigger and better space so I’m guessing since they are dirty fish I was able to climb the Ammonia up to 2ppm and then nitrite showed up and it went to 4 ppm(this was a couple weeks ago) I ended up just doing a water change to bring it down and it both went down to about 0-.25 ppm but no Nitrate still showing, so hopefully I didn’t kill off my BB or it’s just taking so long for Nitrate to appear. And yes these are my readings for
Tap Water:
PH(will sit in a glass cup for 24 hours)
GH-4 Drops (50-70ppm?)
KH- 1 drop(20ppm or less?)
Ammonia- 0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate 0

Tank water
PH- 7ppm
GH- 9 drops (160ppm)
KH -3 drops (50 ppm or maybe a bit less)
Ammomia- .25
Nitrite - in between 0-.25
And Nitrate- 2-3 ppm

It seems my tank cycle is stalled as it’s been like this for a few days now smh, but eventually The end goal here is to try to get a Community tank going when it’s all said and done and I’m not sure if these numbers are acceptable?.
Again thanks for the help

There is nothing really wrong here with these numbers. With just the Raphael in this sized tank you should be OK going forward as far as "cycling" is concerned. Daily water changes of half the tank volume, using just a conditioner, will be all you should need. You cxould get a small bottle of a bacterial supplement, it can't do any harm and might be a cautionary back-up to be safe. Tetra's SafeStart is ideal, or Seachem's Stability. The smallest bottle, it will not bee needed beyond that.

To the GH. The tap water indicates soft water, so that is fine for the Raphael. Other fish to be considering for the future are species from South America (tetras, etc) and SE Asia (rasbora, barbs, danios). You just need to keep the issues with the Rafael in mind, this fish will affect what you could add.

You should look into the rise in GH/KH in the aquarium. Do you have any rock or substrate composed of calcareous material (limestone, marble, aragonite, dolomite)?

 

[Kevino]

There is nothing really wrong here with these numbers. With just the Raphael in this sized tank you should be OK going forward as far as "cycling" is concerned. Daily water changes of half the tank volume, using just a conditioner, will be all you should need. You cxould get a small bottle of a bacterial supplement, it can't do any harm and might be a cautionary back-up to be safe. Tetra's SafeStart is ideal, or Seachem's Stability. The smallest bottle, it will not bee needed beyond that.

To the GH. The tap water indicates soft water, so that is fine for the Raphael. Other fish to be considering for the future are species from South America (tetras, etc) and SE Asia (rasbora, barbs, danios). You just need to keep the issues with the Rafael in mind, this fish will affect what you could add.

You should look into the rise in GH/KH in the aquarium. Do you have any rock or substrate composed of calcareous material (limestone, marble, aragonite, dolomite)?

Yes I just ordered some Tetra safe start now hopefully it helps. Well I’m just afraid my KH is so low my PH will be going all over the place. So the GH at 160ppm is ok for the fish tank? I have a few plants(java ferns) mixed with fake plants(kids choices ) and some sea shells with a fake log for the Raphael can hide in. Again thanks for your time on helping me out

 

[Byron]

Yes I just ordered some Tetra safe start now hopefully it helps. Well I’m just afraid my KH is so low my PH will be going all over the place. So the GH at 160ppm is ok for the fish tank? I have a few plants(java ferns) mixed with fake plants(kids choices ) and some sea shells with a fake log for the Raphael can hide in. Again thanks for your time on helping me out

Explanation time. The pH is determined by the GH, KH, and dissolved CO2. These are the major factors. In any aquarium, these factors will play out and arrive at a pH which will--provided you perform regular partial water changes (50-70% of the tank volume once each week), do not overstock, do not overfeed, have the right combination and numbers of species, and do not mess around with other additives--remain stable.

In any aquarium organics are continually being produced. These enter the substrate where various bacteria break them down. This produces ammonia and CO2. Plants can use these nutrients, or we can remove them via water changes. The CO2 produces carbonic acid which lowers the pH. Every aquarium is biologically unique, and it will settle down at some point and remain stable, subject to the above. That is what you want to achieve.

Given the soft water, you can expect the pH to be fairly acidic. Provided you stock the tank with species that prefer this (= need it to be healthy) you will have no problems. Trying to raise the pH to some arbitrary and artificial level is not only basically impossible it is also very detrimental to fish, and leads to all sorts of other issues that the fish should never have to deal with.

The GH and KH of my source water is 7 ppm, which is basically zero. I have had this for over 25 years. The pH is low, in some tanks it remains around 6, in others below 5. I select fish suited, and they live long and spawn regularly. I let the biology establish on its own and it is stable because I do not interfere with it, other than weekly 70% water changes.

You might want to remove the sea shells. They may do some buffering, and provided this is minimal there should be no trouble but you never know. I went through all that years ago. Keep it simple.

 

[seangee]

My KH is < 2 degrees (with GH = 0). With regular weekly 75% water changes my pH is stable at 6.4 and I have never added any buffers. I do have a lot of floating plants in this tank - so much so that I would not be surprised if my filter has become "un-cycled" as the plants take out the ammonia long before it can get into the filter.