Fish In Cycle Data

[mattlee]

below is my data for my fish in tank cycling, i was given incorrect info from my local aquatic store and had very high nitrite levels but also had fish already in the tank. so here goes, feel free to comment and advise if you please.... tests are done using api kits. just to add the tank has been set up for about 4 weeks now and contains 2 x dwarf gouramis.

09/06/09 - Nitrite = 5.0 Ammonia = 0.25

10/06/09 - (50% water change) Nitrite = 1.0 Ammonia = 0.25

11/06/09 - (80% water change) Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0
- (fed fish once - flake)

12/06/09 - Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0

13/06/09 - Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0 Nitrate = 10.0 PH =7.6
- (fed fish once - flake)

14/06/09 - (added 1x polkadot loach + 1x asian sun catfish) Nitrite = 0.25 Ammonia = 0
- (30% water change) Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0
- (fed fish once - frozen bloodworms)

15/06/09 - Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0 Ph = 7.6
- (fed fish once - flake)

16/06/09 - Nitrite = 0.25 Ammonia = 0
- (30% water change) Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0
- (fed fish once - flake)

17/06/09 - Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0
- (fed fish once - frozen bloodworms)

18/06/09 - Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0
- (fed fish once - flake)

19/06/09 - Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0
- (fed fish once - flake)

20/06/09 - Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0
- (fed fish once - flake)

21/06/09 - Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0
- (fed fish - frozen bloodworms)
- (fed fish - flake)

22/06/09 - Nitrate = 0 Ammonia = 0 Nitrate = 10/20
- (40% water change) Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0 Nitrate = 5.0
- (added 4 blue rams (2 x male, 2 x female))
- (fed fish -flake)

23/06/09 - Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0 Nitrate = 10 PH = 7.6
- (fed fish - flake)
- (removed asian sun catfish)

24/06/09 - Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0 Nitrate = 10
- (fed fish - flake)
- (added 25 cherry shrimp)
- (added 2 amano shrimp)

25/06/09 - Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0 Nitrate = 10
- (added 1 x apple snail)
- (added 1 x siamese fighter (male))
- (fed fish - flake)

26/06/09 - Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0 Nitrate = 10
- (fed fish - frozen bloodworms)

27/06/09 - Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0 Nitrate =10
- (30% water change)
- (fed fish - flake)

28/06/09 - Nitrite = 0 Ammonia =0 Nitrate = 10
- (fed fish - flake)
- (added 2 x albino buenos aries tetra)

29/06/09 - Nitrite = 0 Ammonia = 0 Nitrate = 10
- (fed fish - flake)

 

[waterdrop]

 

[mattlee]

two new fish added yesterday 1 x polkadot loach and 1 x asian sun catfish. nitrite has risen a small amount now at 0.25ppm and nitrate has fallen slightly now at 5.0ppm.
the catfish has hidden and i cant find it....... if anyone has one or knows of these cats, please let me know if i will ever see it again..... its such a great looking fish but pointless if you never see it!!!!

 

[OldMan47]

Stop adding new fish until you have at least a week of no detectable ammonia or nitrites with no water change. At that point you may be safe to add a fish or two. I know how hard it is to wait but it is easier in the long run than all those huge water changes, like the one you need right now, because the new fish load makes nitrites or ammonia show up. Nitrite at 0.25 ppm is not a small amount, it is the most you should ever tolerate during your fish in cycle and it needs to be brought lower. try a 50% water change and check the water again tomorrow, it may need another big water change. Your fish may be hiding or laying on the bottom with high nitrites like that. Nitrite affects fish the way carbon monoxide affects people. No matter how much oxygen they get, they can't use it properly. The only realistic solution is to get rid of the nitrites and you do that with a water change.

 

[waterdrop]

Oh Yes! Don't -ever- add fish during a fish-in cycling situation! A fish-in cycle is already a kind of error situation where you're trying to manually keep the fish alive! You don't want to subject -more- fish to that kind of situation.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[mattlee]

after adding the 2 fish which increased the nitrite level to 0.25 i carried out a 30% water change and everything dropped to 0 again and has remained at 0 for 2 days now without any further water changes. i am updating my original post with new data everyday

 

[OldMan47]

It sounds like you are making good progress Matt. Now try to hold off buying more fish for at least a week and see if you can hold those zeros without a water change. If you can, then a small change in stocking level might be tolerated. There are no guarantees but that is how I see your present situation. If you are leaving out information that might help us understand your situation then all bets are off. If you find that a water change is needed to keep the levels down, try to hold off buying more fish until it becomes not at all necessary to change any water.

 

[mattlee]

It sounds like you are making good progress Matt. Now try to hold off buying more fish for at least a week and see if you can hold those zeros without a water change. If you can, then a small change in stocking level might be tolerated. There are no guarantees but that is how I see your present situation. If you are leaving out information that might help us understand your situation then all bets are off. If you find that a water change is needed to keep the levels down, try to hold off buying more fish until it becomes not at all necessary to change any water.

Hi, thanks for the advice it is very welcome and as i am new to aquariums it is very appreciated . nitrite levels were at 0.25 today. i have been feeding the fish everyday but only once a day including a tablet for the catfish. carried out about a 30% water change, may have been slightly more but 30% roughly, and all levels have dropped back to 0 . the nitrate level i have put down as 0/5.0 as it is bang in the middle of the two colours on my level chart. i dont know what information i could leave out but all figures are as i am reading them from the api chart system. if there is any other info you would like me to give you then i will if i can just let me know what it is you need..... i have found out that the asian sun catfish can grow up to 16 inches, (i was told 12cm by the shop i got it from) so i am unsure if i will keep it and get rid of it when its too big or just take it back and get a smaller spcies of cat instead...... i wish the aquatic shops would just give honest info and not a lot of rubbish as i have discovered many times so far, i am loosing, no, lost any trust in them.......
thanks again, Matt.

 

[waterdrop]

i wish the aquatic shops would just give honest info and not a lot of rubbish as i have discovered many times so far, i am loosing, no, lost any trust in them..

A mental approach I find helpful is to think of the aquatic shops as a lucky place where you can run in a obtain certain fish, plants or supplies without having to wait for them to be shipped to you. But you fully research everything independent of the shop and just go in, smile and buy (if they've got it.) If the shop person is good then enjoy talking, but don't be talked in to anything. Once you've found TFF and other web sources, you have vast information to help you figure out what you really need.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

I would no more take the advice of a fish shop about fish that I am buying than I would take the advice of a parts store when buying parts to fix my car. They are there to sell what they have in stock, just like the parts store. The advice is intended to induce you to buy stuff that they happen to have on hand and make them money, just like the parts store. I ask a carpenter if I want carpentry advice, I don't ask the lumber yard. We should really stop giving the fish shops such a bad rap. They are there to sell you the things that you want and may need but they are not an advice location for the hobbyist.

 

[Rediahs]

I would no more take the advice of a fish shop about fish that I am buying than I would take the advice of a parts store when buying parts to fix my car. They are there to sell what they have in stock, just like the parts store. The advice is intended to induce you to buy stuff that they happen to have on hand and make them money, just like the parts store. I ask a carpenter if I want carpentry advice, I don't ask the lumber yard. We should really stop giving the fish shops such a bad rap. They are there to sell you the things that you want and may need but they are not an advice location for the hobbyist.

The problem with this is that we have no "aquatic advice station" as we have carpenters for wood, mechanics for cars, etc. People assume that it's a lot like the doctor's, who will diagnose you, tell you what you need, and what you should buy for it, all at the same time. After all there isn't a "fish advice clinic" really. Maybe some vets will know a bit about it but I doubt any vet knows about fishless cycling... the contraptions you need to keep a fishtank healthy are a lot different than what fish need in ponds and lakes where they will never encounter ammonia/nitrite poisoning or anything close to what we deal with in our tanks.

So people rely on the fish shops to give advice about their product, as it is a speciality-type shop and the info isn't widely available (aside from on websites like TFF).

I think the current business model of fish shops is broken and harms the hobby, turning potential hobbyists away because of "Why is my fish dying" "pH is wrong, here's pH Down, pH Up, etc", stuff like that....

 

[OldMan47]

I am sure that you a right about the lack of good advice turning people from the hobby Chrissi. It is not that I don't wish things were different, I have just come to the conclusion that the business model for the stores, the training for new employees and everything else points to treating the LFS like a lumber yard in most cases. The rare exceptions, like the store that sponsors our local club, do a brisk business because they hire hobbyists who do know something and they have the pamphlets etc. that at least give a newcomer a chance to survive in the hobby. That does not change how I feel about a typical LFS though.

 

[mattlee]

new data added do you think im about there yet? i want more fish...............

 

[waterdrop]

...sure is a lot of zeros

 

[mattlee]

...sure is a lot of zeros

as most people i just want a healthy tank, i never knew about how much was involved but im well into it....... i dont want to rush but just want a nice clean healthy tank for my daughter to enjoy (as well as my self). i will wait until next weekend until i add more fish, as long as the readings stay good. am i ok to add a few tiger barbs? as we like them for the colour and movement.... what would you advise.....? currently in the tank are 2 x dwarf gouramis, 1 x polka dot/ marble loach, 1 x asian sun catfish.


Matt.