Final Stages Of Cycling

[discodave]

hey guys, i'm waiting for my nitrites to go down in my tank just now, finally getting there and this has almost taken 2months so far arrr!

I recently added the usual daily dose of ammonia to feed the tank, and rather than going up to 3-4ppm i accidently added a bit too much and it rose to 6-8ppm it's taken some time for the ammonia to go down. As i want the nitrites to go down should i do a water change to get rid of some of the ammonia?

Oh yeah just to mention, the nitrites are off the charts and i'm getting a colour red for my nitrate reading. it's taken around 4 weeks for the ammonia to finally go down and a further 2 weeks for the nitrates to sharply rise, and not go down

thanks
dave

 

[doresy]

What is your tank size and filtration system?

 

[discodave]

hi there

my tank size is 10g (38L) and i'm not too sure of the name of the filtration system. It's a tank from the "beta" brand. Filter takes water up through a pipe and it trickles down into a wool filter foam and back into the water. Does that help? i can take pics

 

[doresy]

hi there

my tank size is 10g (38L) and i'm not too sure of the name of the filtration system. It's a tank from the "beta" brand. Filter takes water up through a pipe and it trickles down into a wool filter foam and back into the water. Does that help? i can take pics

Yes it does. It is a smaller version of what I have in my 155lt Aquaone. Trickle filters are pritty good IMO.
Ok so the water trickles down onto the white(?) wool media. This will be the 1st stage filter and is mechanical (takes out the poo etc.) What media lays below that?

 

[discodave]

hey, thanks for the quick reply. after the wool part there is a little black tray, the water then exits through holes line along the bottom of the box thing. Hope that helps!

In addition to this where the pipe comes from the water into the filter part there is a part where water pushes out at a high speed and air goes through that creating the air bubbles in the water

 

[doresy]

I may be wrong but it seems that you have just a mechanical filter that is doubling up as bacteria housing thus not producing enough bacteria to complete the cycle process.

I am no expert on cycling as my tank did it's own thing years ago and now is running perfect stats. I am now cycling a 28ltr fry tank so am getting to know a bit more on the subject.

Basicaly, as you may already know, fish poo and rotting food produce ammonia which needs to be got rid of. In a fishless cycle we artificially introduce ammonia. Lucky for us, the bacteria needed to break this down just appears free of charge! Unlucky for us, there is no such thing as a free lunch and this bacteria has waste too in the shape of NitrIte which is just as harmful as ammonia. Here again, luck is on our side and there is a second bacteria which likes to dine on this NitrIte. But, like it's mate it too produces waste, namely NitrAte. This is not so harmful as long as it is kept to low levels (up to 40ppm is acceptable) This is where we get our hands wet (and everything else ) and do our partial water changes. Did I leave anything out?

So, having told you what you have probably already learned it is fair to assume that bacteria needs a place to grow and feed....namely your filter. So your filter needs to contain, ideally, coarse foam (or ceramic tubes commonaly know as "noodles"), fine foam and woolen media. The woolen media is for collecting the poo etc so It does not clog up the coarse media. This should be cleaned at least weekly. The other media is where the bacteria forms and grows so it must only be cleaned gently and in old tank water as chlorine will kill off the bacteria! (i'd say monthly and only half at a time) All this bacteria also needs a good and constant flow of warm, oxyginated water. Turning the temp upto around 90* helps to speed things up but then you'll need to add an airstone as the warmer the water the lower the oxygen levels become.

So all things considered, I do not think your filter contains enough media to complete a cycle.........but I may be wrong and someone is sure to put me right if I have

 

[honneebee23]

It is difficult to say as I am not familiar with your filter...That being said if it is just a mechanical filtration then it is possible that there is not enough bacteria, but the bio filter is not the only place the bacteria grow. They grow on any and everything in your tank. Your wool filter will take out the big stuff and will also be a good place for bacteria. I would not change the wool at all. You only need to rinse it in tank water and put it back. ( when you have fish that is) They tray it tricles on is also healthy with bacteria. You want to leave this alone too. I really think that you should be okay. You just have to be careful not to clean too much, and make sure you use a dechlorinator. You can always add plants to your tank as well to help out your filtration process. Nitrite eating bacteria grow VERY slowly so you have to be patient. Ammonia should spike, then slowly drop, then nitrities should spike then drop even more slowly and then nitrates. All of this = a cylced tank and happy fish!

Cheers

 

[discodave]

thanks for the help guys no way am i cleaning my filter or anything until those super bacteria get rid of those nitrites! So a bit more patient meditating might do the trick haha. With regards to my ammonia, should i do a little water change to bring it down slightly? Before this little overdose the bacteria easily got rid of 3-4 ppm under 12 hours no problem!

oh and doresy, this media is the wool yeah? What if i bought another piece of wool(media?) and add that to the current wool i have? would that help?

 

[rdd1952]

Beneficial bacteria will colonize on the sponge also. It an functionas both a mechanical and biological filter. Most pond pumps come with nothing more than a large sponge whih does both.

I would do a water change to get the ammonia back down below 6 ppm (if it hasn't already dropped). It is possible to get too much and slow or stall your cycle.

 

[doresy]

Hi again, what I posted earlier (ie, filter cleaning etc) was meant for when you have fish installed and cycling has completed.
As far as media is concerned, I would get as much in there as space will allow as long as flow is not restricted.

Setting up a small tank and keeping it good can be harder than a larger tank as there is little room for errors as the water volume is so much lower, as you say patience

 

[discodave]

Hi again, what I posted earlier (ie, filter cleaning etc) was meant for when you have fish installed and cycling has completed.
As far as media is concerned, I would get as much in there as space will allow as long as flow is not restricted.

Setting up a small tank and keeping it good can be harder than a larger tank as there is little room for errors as the water volume is so much lower, as you say patience

I'll get another piece of media asap what is the best one i should get? I know there is the wool media but i've also heard about carbon types

all your help is much appreciated guys

oh and i did a water change last night and that's brought the ammonia down

 

[rdd1952]

I'm not familiar with your filter and whether you can add media or not but I wouldn't use carbon. It is mainly a chemical filter for removing medications after treatment and will become saturated in a short time (have read as quick as 24 hours). At that point it needs to be changed which means you throw a chunk of your bacteria colony in the trash. Is you have room for media, check out the pourous types sush as ceramic. But the sponges will do fine if that's what you are using now.

 

[discodave]

thanks for the rapid reply there is like 2inch space in height for more media, don't think i really wanna clog it up lol, as for the nitrite it's still off the chart (light green colour) i'll sit and meditate for a couple months i guess

 

[rdd1952]

On my test kit, nitrAte goes yellow to red while nitrIte goes light blue to purple so I don't know what type test kit you're using. If it is strips, throw them away and get a liquid kit as strips are extremely inaccurate. High nitrAtes can only be lowered with water changes. High nitrItes during cycling should be lowered with small water changes. Do 2 or 3 a day (15 to 25 percent) until you can get the nitrites below .25 ppm.

 

[discodave]

it's an API liquid test kit and i did a search, i think some other people had the same outcome in colour with too much nitrItes lol.. When i put the solution in it turns purple instantly, 5mins pass and it goes clear.

As for my nitrAtes it goes from yellow to red like you said it always appears red which means the nitrites are being processed haha i'm getting pro at this chemistry stuff!

so, to speed up the cycling i should do small water changes to lower the nitrites? i thought that you have to just wait for them to go down? If i do water changes then i'll certainly cycle a lot faster

thanks
Dave