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Filters,heaters,air and other fish myths.

Discussion in 'Tropical Discussion' started by AKfish, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. AKfish

    AKfish Fish Fanatic

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    Started this to talk about "new" ideas in fishkeeping. Only been here a short time and noticed when mentioning something against the norm there was a bit of push back. I get it. We all have things completely figured out and are done learning. Ok, sarcasm aside. Let's talk new ideas. I'm fascinated with symbiosis. Nature can be incredibly tough to simulate. But in that case it's really not. This is a video maybe you have seen. The guy in the video has awards for shrimp he has raised. Shrimp definitely can be sensitive I assume most would agree. Anyway he knows his stuff. But don't take my word for it look him up. His rooms, yes rooms. He has 4 different fish rooms. They are all incredible. So let's start here lol. Maybe we can exchange stories or whatever here. Don't really know what I wanted this post for other then sharing new limit pushing ideas. Who knows maybe here in this forum we can break the next big fish keeping advancement

     
  2. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    Sorry I could only watch half of that video before turning it off. I'm not interested in looking at overcrowded tanks that don't get water changes and have incompatible species jammed in together for a video.

    The main tank at the start looks cloudy and has a heap of rainbowfish, cardinal tetras, and a few ruby barbs. He has young rainbowfish that will get bigger and they will probably eat the cardinal tetras. The tank has Glossolepis incisus in it, and the males of this species are the most aggressive rainbowfish known, and regularly cause problems to other male fish and smaller fish.

    Most of the rainbowfish come from hard alkaline water but the cardinal tetras are from soft acid water.

    I am unsure what he is feeding the fish or how often. But rainbowfish need plant matter in their diet and whilst a number of his tanks have filamentous algae growing in them, which is caused by lots of nutrients, no filtration and lack of water changes, he does not have any algae or small floating plants in the big tank for the rainbows to eat.

    As for him doing water changes every few months or whenever he can be bothered, that is asking for trouble. The tank is overcrowded and without big regular water changes, the chances of a disease outbreak is significantly increased. Rainbowfish are renown for developing protozoan infections when overstocked and don't get enough water changes, and that tank is going to have problems eventually.

    He also mentions the plants are keeping his ammonia levels down, but there is an internal power filter on the far left corner of the tank. This will be removing the ammonia and converting it into nitrite and nitrate, and it is producing some surface turbulence which is keeping the oxygen levels high enough at night when the plants aren't photosynthesising.

    He says the tank has been running for a couple of years but the rainbowfish in it are all young fish that appear to be less than 6 months old. And he doesn't know that much about plants.

    Sorry to bad mouth someone about their way of keeping fish but that video is not a good thing for amateur fish keepers to learn from. Whilst plants are definitely beneficial to the eco system, the video is full of bad ideas and should not be used as an information source if you want your fish to live long healthy lives.
     
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  3. AKfish

    AKfish Fish Fanatic

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    Your right, again. Anybody doing things differently is wrong, again. Don't know where this world would be without open minds like yours my friend. Do just a small amount of research on the man before discrediting him as a bad keeper. Look a his prize winning shrimp that he raises in tanks without filters and so on. The generations of shrimp growing out in such horrible conditions that people pay top dollar for lol. Expand your norm bro. The bubble your living in needs a water change.
    Oh and P.S. he breeds rainbow fish my friend. This is why so many and small ones. Actually gets asked about selling his rainbows (because his dirty dirty fish are desirable) in the video you were too disgusted to finish lol.
     
  4. AKfish

    AKfish Fish Fanatic

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    Ok. I created this post to escape you and your buddies judging eyes. Obviously that didn't work. Look I get it. You believe that what you believe in is better then what anyone else may believe in. I disagree making me the enemy (remind us of anyone) . Can at least this post be free of you deciding I'm the devil and everything I think is wrong?? Maybe? Just this post?? I get that change can be scary. But I came to this forum hopeful to meet people also looking to dare the impossible. Who actually consider that just by some off chance the way things were done in the 80s is out dated slightly. Maybe they didn't know everything there was to ever know about anything aquarium related. I don't know just a thought. Look you want to debate or have an actual conversation I'm down. I'm sure your a nice guy. If you just want to bash me over the head with what you believe please, don't feel obligated.
     
  5. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    LOL :)

    I used to breed and supply shops with rainbowfish and other types of fish, and aquatic plants too. I don't know how many fry he rears in each tank, if he only has small numbers and lots of plants, then filtration is less of an issue. I am unsure how fast his fry grow, but there is lots of evidence to suggest that doing big regular water changes help fish grow faster.

    I use to rear between 20-100 fry in tanks that were 2 foot long x 10 inches wide x 12 inches high. They had an air operated sponge filter, an airstone, a thin layer of gravel and a heater. I did big water changes each day and fed the fry heaps. Most of my rainbowfish were sold when 2-3 months of age and about 2 inches long.

    ------------------------
    Many years ago aquariums did not have filters, heaters or decent lights. People had iron framed tanks and relied on plants to help keep the water clean. Their lights were yellow incandescent globes and they had a few fish in big tanks with lots of plants. They used candles, gas burners or wood fires to heat the tank or room.

    People kept fish like this for many years, and a few even bred them. The fish that did best were usually from soft acid water, and marine fish and fish from hard alkaline water didn't do as well.

    Some people did water changes on these tanks and some didn't. Most of the fish kept in these tanks only lived for a few years.

    Fast forward to today and people regularly keep fish alive for years. Most people use filters and do water changes to keep the tank clean. Some people do natural systems that rely on plants to help keep the water clean.

    If you have healthy disease free fish, and they aren't fed a lot of food, and there are lots of healthy actively growing plants in the aquarium, then yes you can keep fish without filters. However, water changes should be done regularly, regardless of filtration. Just to reduce the number of disease organisms in the water.

    I'm not saying his fish look unhealthy, (his tanks looked milky cloudy and had a lot of algae), but keeping rainbows or any fish in over crowded tanks, and not doing big regular water changes, will eventually cause problems with disease outbreaks.
     
  6. AKfish

    AKfish Fish Fanatic

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    In your opinion? Could you please just ad din your opinion some times? Believe him or not he has kept shrimp most consider to live on average 2 years for up to 4 years. Doing things the way he does things. He's not growing lights with a globe. His tanks had a glare but I think milky what would be a little reach. Algae of course but he uses that to his advantage because algae also eats bad stuff in the water. Also not display tanks so not his biggest concern. I'm just saying maybe open your mind to it a little and so some looking into it. Instead of maybe basically calling me out at every pass. I'm not a bad dude and not trying to run anyone the wrong way. But definitely feeling corrected regularly for my belief being different then yours. Definitely got under my skin.
     
  7. AKfish

    AKfish Fish Fanatic

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    Was going to apologise for bad spelling. But I'm on a phone and I cut my thumb up with a table say pretty good. Showed a pic in another post. Anyway messes with my texting pretty bad lol.
     
  8. Lunar Jetman

    Lunar Jetman Chatroom Moderator
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    Strange thread! I've had a look at this video before commenting and I find your responses to Colin a little aggressive. This guy's solution seems to be to do nothing and claim this is the way forward but as Colin points out, the tank that's been set up for several years has only adolescent fish in it. Plus, for reference i watched one of his other videos and he showed a tank of Endlers he said weren't breeding and the tank was full of algae so my take from that was that he wasn't controlling perameters of the tank well enough and his fish weren't behaving as they would be in the wild.

    You mention his shirmp but they're only in this video briefly and I couldn't really see them so I'll have to take your word for it that they're "award winning".

    Also, he's got a website on Patreon where you can pay him to be a patron of his tanks and help fund his hobby. Seems a little disingenuous to claim you don't need to do anything to your tanks and then ask for money to help look after them....

    Maybe if he backed up his claims that everything is great with his tanks by doing nothing with them by showing some water tests then it might carry more weight. Otherwise we're just supposed to take his word for it...
     
  9. AKfish

    AKfish Fish Fanatic

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    While I have you in here I have to get a couple things off my chest. You quoted a ton of crap from one of my other posts. Correcting everything of course. I just have to say you are so wrong on several things. I don't think you will hear any of this. But rain certainly does not flush rivers or provide clean water. Ok this is what happens in a river starting with summer. Slowly the river level falls as summer heat evaporates the water less snow melting to feed it and such. So the disolved solids which do not evaporate ever simply concentrate. So if fresh water would be added it would be like only filling the tank to replace evaporated water. No actual water change has occurred. With me so far? Now I'll do you one better. You may argue well when it rains and the water level rises past it's normal level it's getting fresh clean water. (Buzzer sound) nope. This fresh water is now rushing over the river banks. What drinks at rivers? Every animal in the woods. So what is all over around a river bank? Animal waist, debris of all kind organic, rotting whatever. All that adds up to probably worse water then before the rain. Okay so now winter comes drops temp fish slow down. Things kind of calm down a bit. Next big change comes at melting time for the snow. Well surprisingly those same animals also lived there during winter. They also lived all throughout the woods. So the snow melts flushing nature's toilet into the rivers and lakes. Definitely doesn't sound like fresh water. As a matter of fact. Growing up in Alaska we were warned a lot about drinking rive water. It's ok during the summer. But during spring when nature flushes the toilet. Your almost guaranteed to catch beaver fever. That is directly linked to pathogens found in animal scat. This is the key. In nature no one cleans the poop. There is a third type of beneficial bacteria that actually eats nitrite. Less cleaning and actually lower disolved air levels premot the growth. It's something that exists in nature and not in an aquarium normally because we tend to over clean. If you think about it we are trying to replicate an ecosystem that cleans itself. Why would we stop short of trying to obtain that just because something else works? I just don't understand calling me out all day and then doing it about stuff like the rain and melting fresh water that your just wrong about yourself. Maybe that's why it's bugging me so much. If your going to correct me at least know what your talking about. Water changes in the way that they work in the aquarium are nothing like anything that happens in nature. Ok I'm done. Feel slightly better getting that off my chest. I already assume I'm still wrong even though everything I said was true but ya know, what ya gunna do.
     
  10. AKfish

    AKfish Fish Fanatic

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    understand. If you look at his you tube channel you can see other videos more about his shrimp. They have international competitions for different fish and inverts and so on. Not saying blindly listen to him or me. Just asking people to at least check it out. If it interests you do a little research. May be some challenge someone else wasn't to try. And to address my aggressively answering our friend up there. He has basically been following me and "correcting" most things I post anywhere. He seems to disagree with me and instead of just posting his opposite opinion. Feels compelled to quote and correct me. Got a bit under my skin. So that's the results. I played nice and tried to let it go. Just kept happening. I started this because of him just like I stated. I try to be less passive aggressive and more just aggressive aggressive. I don't have an issue calling a spade a spade if you know what I mean. And I do it directly if needed. But not trying to be abrasive to you or anyone really. Well besides him, kinda have lost my patience weird circumstances.
     
    #10 AKfish, Jul 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
  11. Lunar Jetman

    Lunar Jetman Chatroom Moderator
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    Who is this all directed at? I can't find anything in my post or Colin's mentioning rain and melting freshwater?

    Although you kind of argue against this guy by saying that there is a regular change in water in nature but he doesn't do any water changes. Yes the water you put in your tank at a change is different to that which replaces water in a river, lake or stream but its still a water change diluting what is already there..
     
  12. Lunar Jetman

    Lunar Jetman Chatroom Moderator
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    More than happy to have a sensible, amicable discussion on this topic. I'd just like to see more evidence that this guy's tank inhabitants are healthy. I have already started looking at some of his videos and if he isn't posting water parameters, what I'm looking for are mature/older fish that shows he's able to breed and grow his fish over a longer period of time.

    So far I've yet to see that. Lots of young, immature fish so far. I'm no expert by any stretch but my Rainbowfish for example are nearly twice the size of what he had in his "mature" tank so it makes me wonder how long his fish actually live for.
     
  13. AKfish

    AKfish Fish Fanatic

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    It was directed at him. As I said a bit frustrated and it was referring to another post where he broke down what I said into like 5 different quotes correcting each thing. And my point wasn't that it diluted the water at all in nature. It was actually the opposite. It collects all types of bad stuff from animal waist to rotting material. None of that is present in a clean water change. That was my point is there are no truly clean water changes in nature. Aside from a natural spring or something like that.
     
  14. AKfish

    AKfish Fish Fanatic

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    Awesome, would love an actual discussion. My issue with our friend was I just got told i was wrong. No give and take just copy and paste the same litterateur. That's not a conversation and very frustrating lol. Anyway. I can understand your scepticism. And truthfully I know very little about rainbow fish. I know more about shrimp and how picky they can be especially at juvi size. So I gave him a little credit there. I have seen several of his videos. I'm not saying he's 100% on everything. Don't think anyone is. But he has some good thoughts and his shrimp are beautiful.
     
  15. AKfish

    AKfish Fish Fanatic

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    Maybe consider this. Without doing any research just off the top.of my head I know that large mouth bass across the United States range in average size. This is largely contributed to Temp and a couple other factors. They are the same specie's but slight differences I'm habitat makes pretty big difference in size. Why would that be any different in an aquarium? I know that a common way to try and figure health was size. But I don't believe bass in Idaho are any less healthy then the huge bass you can catch in say Texas. Slightly different temp probably a few other factors. Sand you have two fish same specie's both healthy living wild but much different average size. Just food for thought. I don't know I count him having smaller fish as unhealthy. I don't believe keeping a fish slightly warmer or slightly colder then the norm is going to creat some frankinfish. To me these are old ways of thinking. I used to think all this same stuff. But time and experience mixed with a little common sense (lucky because I only possess a little) and I have changed my way of thinking.
     

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