Filter System

[james_fish]

How can i get my system to be as efficient as possible?

I have 16 fish (4 neon's, 2 glowlights, 4 dalmation mollies, 5 zebra danio's and a small pleco)

I don't want to have to lose any fish.

My ammonia levels can rise quite high sometimes. Why could it be and what can i do to maintain low ammonia levels.

Thanks James.

 

[always4lora]

Providing you're filters large enough for the tank and it's cycled then you shouldnt have any ammonia ,
Why you have got ammonia :
Could be not enough water changes , weekly or fortnightly water changes is enough for most fish
Filter isn't capable enough for the tank , generally it'll say on the filter what tank it's rated for.
Filter isn't Cycled , if this is the case check the links on this website for fish in cycle and get cycling
Dead fish can cause ammonia , check any caves or areas wherethey might not be noticed to see if any are dead
Over feeding, feed the fish as much as they can eat in a few minutes and not much more.

Hope that helps giving you some ideas

 

[james_fish]

Hi, one issue i have is the pleco, it does not bother to eat straight away unlike most fish. It leaves it for hours after i go to sleep. Could this affect the levels?

I could be feeding my others to much, i will cut down from now on.

The filter is definately capable for the tank and its cycled.

I also have no plants, i heard this helps the whole cycle? true?

Thanks James.

 

[arobinson1984]

When you say the ammonia levels can get quite high, how high do you mean in terms of a test reading? ppm? mg/l?

Ammonia shouldnt be present in a cycled tank at all, even if you missed water changes for months, ammonia still shouldnt be present, you'd just have a hell of alot of nitrates.

When did you last add fish? and how many? How did you cycle the tank?

My guess is either:

a) The filter isn't big enough to cope with the biolad in the tank, the plec will be adding to this bioload significantly.
b) The filter isnt properly cycled, if you've cycled by how your lfs tell you which is to leave it running for a week then that isn't cycling.
c) Overfeeding, Only feed your fish once a day and just what htey can eat in 2 mins. For the plec either drop 1 algae wafer in or put some veg in.
d) Are you cleaning your gravel / sand when doing water changes? and how often do you do water changes and how much each time?

Try answer these questions please and it will help us identify the problem

Cheers

Andy

 

[kribensis12]

When you say the ammonia levels can get quite high, how high do you mean in terms of a test reading? ppm? mg/l?

Ammonia shouldnt be present in a cycled tank at all, even if you missed water changes for months, ammonia still shouldnt be present, you'd just have a hell of alot of nitrates.

When did you last add fish? and how many? How did you cycle the tank?

My guess is either:

a) The filter isn't big enough to cope with the biolad in the tank, the plec will be adding to this bioload significantly.
b) The filter isnt properly cycled, if you've cycled by how your lfs tell you which is to leave it running for a week then that isn't cycling.
c) Overfeeding, Only feed your fish once a day and just what htey can eat in 2 mins. For the plec either drop 1 algae wafer in or put some veg in.
d) Are you cleaning your gravel / sand when doing water changes? and how often do you do water changes and how much each time?

Try answer these questions please and it will help us identify the problem

Cheers

Andy

Why can't he feed more than once a day? Overfeeding is feeding a lot at once. But if he fed enough to curb their hunger down every 4 hours, he'd be fine (thats only if he wanted to). Check out my post on here called "Overfeeding and it's hazards". Other than that though, that's pretty solid information right there.

 

[arobinson1984]

Why can't he feed more than once a day? Overfeeding is feeding a lot at once. But if he fed enough to curb their hunger down every 4 hours, he'd be fine (thats only if he wanted to). Check out my post on here called "Overfeeding and it's hazards". Other than that though, that's pretty solid information right there.

I didnt say he 'couldnt' feed more than once a day! If the high ammonia is partly due to overfeeding then feeding once a day will be sufficient for the fish present in the tank and will also help combat against excess waste food as well as lowering the waste produced by the fish therefore ensuring that the high ammonia isn't being produced by overfeeding.

Overfeeding can be either feeding too many times or too much at once, or do you reckon that if I fed my fish every 20 mins that I wouldnt be overfeeding them? The more times you feed your fish the more 'risk' of overfeeding.

I can see where you are coming from, many fish require more than 1 feeding a day, but looking at the fish in his tank I'd say once a day is easily sufficient and will help ensure excess ammonia is not being produced due to overfeeding.

Andy

 

[OldMan47]

I would like to really keep it civil and help out James Fish in this thread.
You still need to answer some questions James fish. These will help us figure out how to help you. Without the answers, we are shooting in the dark.

What are the numbers for the ammonia that you are worried about?
How long has the fish tank been set up with fish in it?
When did you last add fish to the tank and how many did you add?
How do you go about cleaning the filter and how often do you do it?
How do you do a water change and do you use a gravel vacuum?
How big is the tank that you are dealing with?
What kind of filter are you using and what tank size is it rated to be able to serve?
What is your tank's pH?
What do you feed the fish and how often do you feed them?

 

[james_fish]

I would like to really keep it civil and help out James Fish in this thread.
You still need to answer some questions James fish. These will help us figure out how to help you. Without the answers, we are shooting in the dark.

What are the numbers for the ammonia that you are worried about?
How long has the fish tank been set up with fish in it?
When did you last add fish to the tank and how many did you add?
How do you go about cleaning the filter and how often do you do it?
How do you do a water change and do you use a gravel vacuum?
How big is the tank that you are dealing with?
What kind of filter are you using and what tank size is it rated to be able to serve?
What is your tank's pH?
What do you feed the fish and how often do you feed them?

The level can reach between 2-4 mg/L, it rarely exceeds that.
I have had the tank about 4 months, i had it a couple of weeks before adding my first fish.
I last added fish on Tuesday (4 Mollies) and before that 2 weeks ago (5 Danios & a Small Gibbicep pleco)
The filter i change about once every 8 weeks, i remove the old & add some media into the new filter. Aswell as doing a water change & several other maintence procedures.
I use a tube to take out and insert new water. I suck up waste from the bottom with the tube. I usually do 15% or more pending on the Ammonia levels.
The tank is 60L
Its a biorb filter that is specific for the tank and the only one i have come across that fits in the designated area.
My tanks PH is around 6.2-6.4
I feed my fish, fish flakes twice a day. I feed my pleco vege disks once at night.


James

 

[kaivalagi]

James,


Firstly, I am a noob myself so I would seek the second opinion of some one with experience before acting on anything I say, it's just that I am going through a similar issue to you right now which I hope to not go through again. This looks to me like you're making the same mistake as I recently made of adding too many fish in one go. I am no expert but I have learnt that adding too many fish in one go you can overload the bacteria you have which means the ammonia levels are not recyclable at present. You're going into regular mini-cycles it seems until the bacteria levels rise enough to maintain tank chemistry.

If I were you I would:
1) Not add any more fish until you have been without any nitrogen cycle spikes for a couple of weeks
2) Stop feeding the fish for a few days whilst you wait the bacteria to mature, fish can go without for a week no worries
3) Do daily water changes to reduce the ammonia levels (and subsequent Nitrite too prob') and therefore toxicity of the water to the fish
4) Take regular liquid tests of the water, looking at Ammonium and Nitrite levels right now
5) If you want more and have the further capacity for more fish, add them in small numbers, once a week say...bit by bit to allow the bacteria to cope with the increasing levels of waste

Hope that helps

 

[james_fish]

James,


Firstly, I am a noob myself so I would seek the second opinion of some one with experience before acting on anything I say, it's just that I am going through a similar issue to you right now which I hope to not go through again. This looks to me like you're making the same mistake as I recently made of adding too many fish in one go. I am no expert but I have learnt that adding too many fish in one go you can overload the bacteria you have which means the ammonia levels are not recyclable at present. You're going into regular mini-cycles it seems until the bacteria levels rise enough to maintain tank chemistry.

If I were you I would:
1) Not add any more fish until you have been without any nitrogen cycle spikes for a couple of weeks
2) Stop feeding the fish for a few days whilst you wait the bacteria to mature, fish can go without for a week no worries
3) Do daily water changes to reduce the ammonia levels (and subsequent Nitrite too prob') and therefore toxicity of the water to the fish
4) Take regular liquid tests of the water, looking at Ammonium and Nitrite levels right now
5) If you want more and have the further capacity for more fish, add them in small numbers, once a week say...bit by bit to allow the bacteria to cope with the increasing levels of waste

Hope that helps

Thankyou for your honesty and advice, i will take it into account. Hopefully i will sort this issue out it the next few weeks.

James

 

[OldMan47]

OK lets get the water chemistry under control before you add any more fish.
One thing that I have noticed is your pH. It will almost stop the bacteria from processing your ammonia in that tank. A cycle will "stall" at a pH of about 6.2. If your tap water has a higher pH, it would be a good idea to do a large water change, maybe 75%, on that tank to bring the pH up. A molly will not do well in low pH water so you need to bring it up to at least 7.0. If the tap water has low pH, you can still bring the pH up by putting some crushed coral or crushed shell into the filter flow path. Saltwater tanks use crushed shell or coral as a substrate so it is something your LFS will have on hand.

Once you get the pH in the ballpark, you may still need to get the ammonia and nitrite readings below 0.25 mg/L so more large water changes may still be needed.

When you decide the filter needs cleaning, rinse it out in old tank water and put it back, there is no reason to be swapping filter media unless it is falling apart.

If the filter has truly cycled and it has been at least a few weeks since you last replaced the media, you should have things back to normal in a week or two. Until that time, keep an eye on your chemistry and do water changes as needed. Contrary to what you may have read in some places, you really do not lose anything that you or your fish need when you do a water change.

 

[james_fish]

OK lets get the water chemistry under control before you add any more fish.
One thing that I have noticed is your pH. It will almost stop the bacteria from processing your ammonia in that tank. A cycle will "stall" at a pH of about 6.2. If your tap water has a higher pH, it would be a good idea to do a large water change, maybe 75%, on that tank to bring the pH up. A molly will not do well in low pH water so you need to bring it up to at least 7.0. If the tap water has low pH, you can still bring the pH up by putting some crushed coral or crushed shell into the filter flow path. Saltwater tanks use crushed shell or coral as a substrate so it is something your LFS will have on hand.

Once you get the pH in the ballpark, you may still need to get the ammonia and nitrite readings below 0.25 mg/L so more large water changes may still be needed.

When you decide the filter needs cleaning, rinse it out in old tank water and put it back, there is no reason to be swapping filter media unless it is falling apart.

If the filter has truly cycled and it has been at least a few weeks since you last replaced the media, you should have things back to normal in a week or two. Until that time, keep an eye on your chemistry and do water changes as needed. Contrary to what you may have read in some places, you really do not lose anything that you or your fish need when you do a water change.

Hello once again. Sorry for the late reply & a happy new year for the record.

I'm really struggling to adjust my PH i have managed to get it up slightly but not to your suggestion of 7.0
Since i last spoke to you, i have not added any fish. However i have introduced some small plants to the tank as it was in need after i got rid of my others at the end of november.

At this moment in time the Ammonia levels are still quite high. I'll regularly do water changes to reduce them & alter my PH.

 

[Ryefish]

when you change the filter do you buy the replacement pack with the carbon and the circle of sponge in?


A noob needing to learn because i too have a BiOrb - are the ammonia spikes from mini-cycles because the filter media is being completely replaced?

 

[AdamM]

my water PH is 6.0 and all my tanks have fully cycled no problems....

 

[james_fish]

My PH is okay now, its like a 7.2

I think the plants stabalized the tank.

Now, with a few water changes and that i'm expecting the ammonia levels to lower and stay low.