Filter Perhaps Not Up To Scratch?

[Schmill]

Ok, so hears the REALLY aggrevating story...

I have been doing a fishless cycle on my 300L tank, equiped with the Aqua One Aquis 1200 External Filter.

So I cycle the tank/filter with the water temperature at around 29 deg. C.
After a looong time I get to having 0 ammonia and 0 nitrIte within 12 hours.
I start my week of 'qualifying' and wind the temperature on the tank back down to the 'fish level' of 24 deg. C.
When I do this my nitrIte stops hitting zero in 12 hours, the first day it's at about 0.1ppm after 12 hours, and then drops to zero an hour or so later.
The second day it is at about 0.25ppm after 12 hours, and is gone after a few hours.

This happened to me once, then I had a replacement tank (for other issues), so had to 'catchup' on the cycling again, so had raised the temperature again.
A couple of days ago I wound the temperature down to 24 deg. C again, and now the nitrIte levels seem to be increasing

So the details:

Each day I am dosing 5ppm of ammonia.

The filter is the one supplied with the 300L tank, but it says on the box suitable for up to 250L tanks...
I raised this with Aqua One when I received the tank, and they said it was a 'printing' problem, and that the filter was fine for the tank.

The information I have for the Filter is:
Max Flow Rate: 1100 L/hr
Operating Flow Rate: 750 L/hr (based on full media baskets and pumping-head of 1.2m)
Power Consumption: 35W

The dirty water goes in at the top, down a tube inside the filter, and then flows upwards through the media in the manufacturers recommended order, (water flows through in THIS order):

1st: "Bio Balls" (Black plastic balls with 'fins' on them)
2nd: 15ppi Blue Sponge
3rd: Ceramic Noodles
4th: 15ppi Blue Sponge
5th: Black Sponge 35ppi
6th: Polishing Wool / Floss

Does the bacteria in the filter work 'harder' when it's warmer, or is there a larger colony at higher temperatures?

Is it possible that this filter just can't support enough bacteria to process 5ppm within 12 hours at 'normal' temperatures?

If thats the case, the question then is where did the "5ppm" figure come from?
If I call the manufacturer are they going to accept that the filter "isn't up to the job because it won't process 5ppm", or are they just going to shrug this off and say "well, it filters the water doesn't it?"

I'm annoyed and don't know what to do...

 

[Schmill]

Looks like despite what they say it SHOULD be provided with a 2200 for a 300L tank...
Perhaps another call is in order?

This is on their WEBSITE it doesn't even show anything greater than the 1200...

 

[Colin_T]

Bacteria and fish metabolise things faster in warm water. Therefore if you drop the temperature they take longer to break down the waste.

5ppm is a starting point and is used simply to get the filters going. When you have fish in the tank there will be a constant but much lower level of ammonia being produced by the fish. There will be peaks during and shortly after feeding but normally it will be low. Then the bacteria will develop higher numbers to compensate for any additional food, or more likely reduce their numbers due to a lack of food. I would just lower the temp to 24C and leave it to run for a week, (continue adding ammonia). Then do a massive water change, wait 24 hours and add some fish.

If you ring the supplier they will say the filters are working fine. However, a filter that is designed for a 250litre tank is possibly a bit small for a 300litre tank, depending on what is going to be kept. It will be fine for a few small tetras, but if you plan on keeping big predatory fishes, then a bigger filter (or a second filter) would be advisable.

 

[Schmill]

Thanks Colin, not going for 'predatory fish' but was hoping to get quite close to my 'stocking limit'.
This thread has my proposed stocking list on it, (when I can actually source them!):


I think perhaps the issue is that looking at that second image again, this is the size of filter recommended for a 120-150cm tank, and this is indeed a 120cm tank. However this is a DEEP tank, so it doesn't come into the literage recommendation of the 1200, (up to 250L), but instead comes into the recommendation of the 2200 (up to 300L), but then the tank size is out as that filte ris recommended for 150-180cm tanks!
I think either way if they want to wiggle their way out of it they can. I've got no choice now anyway, I can't get fish, so I am going to have too keep adding ammonia for another couple of weeks, and then do ANOTHER big waterchange

 

[Colin_T]

when getting a filter for a tank, work on water volume rather than tank size. Tanks sold in different parts of the world have too much variation in size. Whereas 100litres of water is 100litres regardless of the container it is kept in.

 

[Schmill]

Thats what I thought, so by that reasoning their "Package" contained the wrong filter, however I'm sure they'll argue it the otherway
Will wait for this mornings test results from the otherhalf to check what's happening, then perhaps give them a call...

 

[Schmill]

Well, here we are again, a couple of days on and apparently the tank is still at 0.25ppm NitrIte after 12 hours.

Is it possible that I have reached maximum bacteria capacity of my filter, or is it a case of waiting even longer for it to get to zero?

 

[stubedoo]

Looks like despite what they say it SHOULD be provided with a 2200 for a 300L tank...
Perhaps another call is in order?

This is on their WEBSITE it doesn't even show anything greater than the 1200...

I was just having a bit more of a think on this one...

On the box for my Advance 1250, it has a similar table to that shown above, but for the up to 300L and up to 350L it has the 2250 UV-C & 2450 UV-C respectively. I imagine the 2200 and 2400 have perhaps been replaced by these models (as details of the UV-C models are on the Aqua One website).

The big difference in these models in the addition of a UV sterilizing lazer, and a higher operating flow rate.

The UV-Sterilizer helps to keep your fish healthy. The Sterilizer uses a quartz sleeve that maintains the PL lamps temperature, thus allowing up to 95% of the UV radiation to sterilize the water. This increased intensity exposes virtually all organic, single celled algae and eradicates most harmful micro-organisms. This ensures that bacteria, disease germs and free swimming algae are destroyed by the radiation, guaranteeting your aquarium water is clear and as healthy as can be.

Make of that what you will.

 

[OldMan47]

Although the recommended filter compared to your tank size looks like you would have a marginally large enough filter, it is not the flow that will determine how much ammonia or nitrites can be processed. The flow has only as much to do with it as that it needs to be high enough to bring the water into the filter for processing and high enough that the filter stays aerobic. The real limiting factor for a biofilter is how big the biological capacity is. That is determined by the type of media and the volume of the baskets in your filter to be able to hold that media. Mechanical filtration can be greatly affected by actual flow rates, not ratings, but not the biofilter. It is the reason that a ridiculously low flow sponge filter can take care of the bioload in a rather large tank but can't do any mechanical filtration to speak of. They have lots of biosurfaces but not much flow.
Having the nitrite part of the cycle drag out to a frustrating length is not at all unusual in a fishless cycle. I read threads over and over where people say things like, I got the nitrite spike at an early date but this *** nitrite bacteria buildup is taking forever. Most of them don't have a marginal filter to focus their attention so they focus on pH and questions about, can I go ahead without waiting instead.
Your filter will complete its cycle the same as most other people see but as is quite common, the second part is taking its own sweet time.

 

[Schmill]

Your filter will complete its cycle the same as most other people see but as is quite common, the second part is taking its own sweet time.

60+ days in.... your telling me!
It's good to see the info, and I don't think I'm going to be able to get fish / plants until after Christmas now, so I guess I'll just sit tight and see...
I was even debating about whether it was worth me looking at the filter contents (as per the 'box' photo above), and perhaps removing the middle blue sponge and replacing it with more ceramics. Only thing is I don't know if the ceramics will stay in the basket then, or if the sponge is holding them down? Also will the ceramics give me that much more bio-area than the sponge to make the change over worthwhile?

Link to cycling diary is in my signature if you are interested in the gory details - lol

 

[neilgrisdale]

Hi Mate,

How'd you go with this in the end? I also have the Regency 120 with the Aqua One CF1200 filter. I've just filled mine however and there's a leak coming from the priming valve!

 

[OldMan47]

You have nothing to worry about with this old thread Neilgrisdale. Why not post a thread about what you are experiencing with your own cycle? That way we can look at your personal cycle in context and maybe provide some suggestions or observations to fit your particular situation.