Filming A Fish Out Of Water

[steelhealr]

I don't support tests on suffocation. SH

 

[Tolak]

I wouldn't say this is so much a suffocation test, as a person coming to this forum asking if this is doable, and if it is what would be the safest & most humane way of going about it. I think coming to this forum as a newbie, and asking a somewhat controversial question, then expecting and receiving quality answers speaks highly of this forum's reputation. I think any member here has the well being of fish as their number one priority as an aquarist.

You do have to understand doing something like this is going to cause some stress for the fish involved. In the wild fish are exposed to stress on a regular basis, they survive and thrive. Drying out is a bad thing for fish; I would make sure the area you plan on doing this is wet, as well as soft. Grass would be good, dry dirt would be bad. Your idea of rotating fish is a good one, a more hardy fish would be a good choice, you have been given several. One minute out of water would be about the maximum, from what I have read after about two minutes the O2 level in their bloodstream drops dangerously low. Look into a product called Melafix; this would be a good product to add to the water before removing the fish, as well as afterwards, as it has natural antibiotic properties.

Aquarists who breed larger fish, mostly cichlids to my knowledge, will remove the fish from the tank, hold it with a wet towel, and vent them to determine the sex. You want to keep the time out of water to a minute or less when doing this. This also applies to minor surgical procedures, such as removing fibromas, which fish sometimes get on their lips, making eating difficult if not impossible.

 

[Bnew]

Thanks for all the replies guys, I hadn't checked the thread since the initial response, but i'm grateful for all the help since.

We are going to build a very shallow pond, to look like a puddle of water, and I have some questions about this:

- How shallow can it be for the fish to still swim around in?
- Is there anything we can put in the water to colour it, that doesn't harm the fish?
- We're going to line the pond liner with turf, to make it look like a puddle in the field / waterlogged ground, rather than a pond, could the fish get tangled up in the grass easily?

Also, some information on where to buy the fish in London, and also how to transport the fish to and from the location, i.e. If we bought them in a shop on the morning of the filming, how to keep them on the drive up to the location, and on the set for the day. A bucket for each fish maybe? Any special considerations we need, like amount of water in bucket, temperature, or anything in the water?

Also, the colour of the fish is less important overall, so I was wondering if there were any less colourful fish that might be even more suitable/hardy than those already suggested?

And finally, is buying fish online a really bad idea? This site seems to have a good selection and good prices: [URL="http/www.directtropicals.co.uk/"]http/www.directtropicals.co.uk/[/URL]
They have an 'arrive alive' guarantee, they send out the fish overnight for next day delivery in a bag or something - i imagine this could be a bit stressful for the fish already perhaps?

 

[LauraFrog]

I think your best option would be to buy from an LFS, shipping is pretty stressful for the fish.
Methylene blue colours water blue, it's an anti fungal medication used with fish but it can be expensive.
If you want to film the fish stopping moving you can add clove oil to the water. It's used to anaesthetise fish, used properly it is reversible and harmless.
Use fake turf because otherwise the dirt will make the water filthy. If you put a fish on the grass (take it out of water) dont' expect it to stay in one spot. It will go baresque, be impossible to focus on and you could lose it. It could also hurt itself. I really dont' think the fish out of water is a very good idea.

If you choose goldfish you don't have to worry about trying to keep the buckets heated. Anything else and you will need to have heaters and a way to plug them in in London. I would add stress coat and melafix to the water. You also need to be able to cover the buckets or the fish will jump out.

 

[Bnew]

What exactly do you mean by Baresque?

But thanks a lot for your post LauraFrog, the Clove Oil sounds great, we might not have to take the fish out of the water at all that way if we can simulate it being dead by putting it to sleep.

We would need to see the fish actually falling asleep ('dying') though in one shot - how long does it take for the clove oil to kick in? Just to be able to see the fish swiming for a few seconds then sink to the bottom.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

do a whole bundle of research into clove oil before choosing that route though. it's what aquarists use to euthanaise fish if it's needed. so it can kill. you just need to do your research on proper use.

regarding keeping the fish on set for filming, the size of bucket, temp etc etc is really going to vary depending on what species of fish you pick. so you'd need to decide that first, then come back to us and we can give you some advise on how best to keep it temporarily. but yes in general a suitable size bucket is ok for a few hrs, best to also buy a small heater and filter/air pump so that the water stays at a steady temp and is well oxyegnated.

i don't think 1 minute out of water will kill most fish tbh or do irreversible brain damage, i've moved fish from one tank to another before, and when they're netted i'll give them a quick check over for signs of disease that you may not spot when they're swimming around. not timed it like, but i reckon i've held them out for 30 secs or so with no problems.

i've also had a fish who jumped from his tank onto the condensation tray above the water, because he was heavy (big fish, about 10") he dragged the tray down so he was just in a little puddle of a few millimetres of water. it happened while i was at work so i've no idea how long he was there for, but i'm guessing at least a few hrs, he was stunned and v unhappy for a few days afterwards but made a full recovery.

 

[ImperfectFaerie]

We've all had jumpers who have lived, however any stress on the fish that is intentional is just plain cruel. There's a difference between being responsible and taking the best care of an animal you can... to purposefully inflicting trauma on the fish. Not saying it can't be done but this is a fish lovers board, so you've got to understand that most of us are coming to this post with a deep respect for the fish we keep. That being said, I think there are many colorful ways to add artistic expression to your film without harming or potentially harming a living thing. Good luck.

 

[Paul_MTS]

have a look at clarias catfish. They will survive out of water or in a shallow puddle easily, as are quite plainly coloured usually looking like a Belgium chocolate.

 

[Cooper2085]

Use CGI.

 

[Netty]

In this day and age is it really necessary to use a live fish.

 

[Mikaila31]

Old thread

 

[bronzecat]

Old thread

Um.....think you'll find that the topic starter has recently come back in with further questions???

 

[Bnew]

Thanks for the info MissWiggle. I've been looking into it, and I found this article about euthanising fish: [URL="http/www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-h...nize-a-fish.htm"]http/www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-most-h...nize-a-fish.htm[/URL]

So according to that, they recommend 10 drops per gallon, to put the fish to sleep (in order to euthanize it with vodka), or 50 drops per gallon to euthanize it with only the clove oil. So I'm thinking we could put a little under 10 drops per gallon, to be able to catch it going to sleep.

I've looked into local fish shops near the location so that we don't need to transport the fish far, and I'm thinking we'll go with a couple of fancy goldfish. How is best to transport them, what kind of size bucket, and i'm assuming one per bucket.

Also, a bit of a silly question, but what kind of frequency might the fish flop out of the water?

EDIT: As for pump and heater, is it possible to get battery powered ones?

 

[bronzecat]

Sorry, i wasn't going to say anything, but.......Whilst I appreciate Bnew came to a fish forum to ask for advice regarding this issue, it has to be put in perspective. This is for a "film", for entertainment. Not for some scientific study which would result in some better understanding of anything really. If I said I was going to take one of my bettas out of its tank to see how long it would survive, oh and put it on "youtube", there would be uproar.
Whether or not Bnew has done research into "clove oil" etc, makes no difference, its still putting a living creature at risk of suffering for the purpose of entertainment, which IMO makes Bnew no better than the fools how post videos of cruelty on youtube for a laugh.

I do not understand why there are so many people on this forum who are condoning such actions. At the bottom of the credits of films where animals have been used it always says "no animals were harmed....etc", I would ask Bnew what he will put IF any fish die?

 

[Bnew]

Well, in film, and general culture fish are not considered equal with other animals, and from what I can tell this is based around debate on the level of consciousness of fish. So aside from deliberate acts of cruelty, there is little concern about the wellbeing of fish, especially anything off camera, such as stress.

Secondly, the laws concerning animal cruelty in films only applies to things which are to receive BBFC certification in which case cuts are made, or be shown commercially on TV in which case action is only taken after the fact. This is only a small film that is unlikely to be seen by a wide audience so the already tenuous issue of cruelty to fish is a moot point.

Believe me, apart from me noone else involved in the film has any interest in the wellbeing of the fish whatsoever, and take the attitude that because we're not obligated to give a ####, we shouldn't. It's only because I have a fondness for fish and all living creatures that i'm looking into causing as little suffering as possible, when it's not my job to do so, and thankfully I am in a position to be able to influence the outcome.

I do respect the sentiment behind what you're saying, but I don't think it applies here. I think your energy would be better spent worrying about those who fish for pleasure, or those who eat fish.

And lastly, it's Art, not entertainment, there is a big difference!