Doing Fishless Cycle First Time...

[BIGbadJOHN]

Here are my test results as of 6/16/11 @ 5pm.

pH: 7.4-7.8
ammo: .50 ppm
nitrite: 5.0+ ppm
nitrate: 10-20 ppm

After seeing the results I went ahead and dosed the tank back up to 4 ppm ammonia with the ACE brand ammonia. I checked the ammonia again at 12 am and it had gone down a little to around 3 ppm. I checked the ammonia once again at 9:30 am today and ammonia was at 0. I went ahead and dosed the tank back to 4ppm ammonia and when I got home from work I tested it around 7:30 pm and the ammonia had gone down to 0 ppm once again so I know my ammonia "eating" bacteria are good for being able to convert 4 ppm of ammonia in about 10 hours. Should I be concerned with my nitrites at this point since they are extremely high? It's hard to read the nitrite test chart on the API Master Test Kit since the colors in purple are so close. I am producing a vivid purple though that is very dark, but still able to see the test chart through. I'd say it's at least at 5ppm and would say it might even be over.
My question right now is, do I need to keep dosing my ammonia back up? I'm afraid if I keep dosing up the ammonia that it will just keep my nitrites high and I won't get a reading of 0. Should I do a large water change and start dosing the ammonia from scratch again?
This has nothing to do with my question, but I'd just like to say how lucky I was in getting some prime seed material from, of all places, Petco! I didn't think they'd let me have anything since I used to work for PETsMART and I know how the big chains are in protecting their liabilities. That's what I've heard throughout the net anyways; that fish stores normally don't let you have anything because they don't want you saying their material contaminated your tank. Anyways, I was browsing for a centerpiece and some live plants at Petco and just happened to walk by a bucket with a, still wet, 12"x12" piece of filter floss in all its filthy glory. I didn't figure they'd give it to me even if I'd asked and had kinda given up on the fishless cycle thing since I knew no one who would give me anything from an established tank. But, my wife told me, "Just ask them, all they could say is no." So I went ahead and asked and he made me laugh when he said, "Sure, you can have that....if you want it." HAHA. I told him he didn't know how valuable that piece of filter was and I definitely wanted it. He even put some aquarium water in with it to keep it wet. Anyways, I hope to hear some feedback soon.

 

[Randi]

looking good Do a water change to get your nitrites to a more readable level and continue to dose with ammonia. You are seeing readings really quickly, sounds like that filter floss was pure gold!

 

[BIGbadJOHN]

I would also like to add that I just checked my pH and it was pretty high at 8.6. Is this dangerous for the bacteria? I know they like a higher acidity and I think I've read that the actual process of the biological filter produces some acidity, but that's a pretty high jump from 7.8 or so isn't it? In just a day at that. I would also like to add that I have pretty great buffering at 180 kH and around 30 gH, if you can trust the API 4 in 1 test strips I'm using for just the kH and gH. I'll definitely be doing a large water change tomorrow of I guess around 75% or so. What do you guys think? This has to be the actual nitrifying process that has made my water go so acidic all of a sudden right since I have such good buffering?

 

[KittyKat]

You should dose ammonia back up at most once every 24 hours.

+1 water change to make nitrite readable.

It is odd that your pH has gone so high all of a sudden. 8.0-8.4 is optimum for a cycle, but fluctuating pH will harm a cycle more than a not optimum. In other words, 7.4-7.8 is good, but changes aren't. By the way, high pH is alkaline, low pH is acidic. What are your hardness readings? Those are the ones which will indicate what your buffering is like.

 

[Aqua Tom]

The high Ph is not a big deal. In my experience people stress far to much over the Ph of thier water when it is somthing we realy have no control over.
My Ph is 7.6 out of the tap but it rises to 8.2-8.4 overnight as the co2 in the water gasses off. This is quite common so dont worry about it.

Dont worry about a water change just yet. Give your test tubes a thourough clean & wipe inside & out. It seems as though you are very much into to second stage cycling as the A-Bacs are producing Nitrites in vast quantities & they are processing the Ammonia nicely.

The second stage can be frustrating as nothing seems to be happening from day to day with the Nitrites but persevere & one day you will see the golden double zero's.

You are doing a great job. Keep up the good work.

Tom

 

[BIGbadJOHN]

Well, just did another water test and the results are much better.

pH 7.8
ammo 0 (after I dosed the tank back to 4 ppm around 12 last night)
nitrite 5 or more ppm
nitrate 80-160 ppm meaning the nitrites are now definitely being converted

I think I'll be stocking fish before I know it. Heading out of town for the day to wish my dad a Happy Father's Day so I'll check everything again when I get back and hopefully nitrites will be down enough to make a reading lower than 5 or even be at 0! If they are I'll go ahead and dose ammonia for another couple of days just to make sure everything still converts then do a large water change and add Patron`, my betta. Then it'll be off to the store to get some platys and mollies, an otto and maybe some corys. What do y'all think? Mollies and Platys go well with a betta? I've also heard that corys need to be kept in schools, is that true?

 

[KittyKat]

I think I'll be stocking fish before I know it. Heading out of town for the day to wish my dad a Happy Father's Day so I'll check everything again when I get back and hopefully nitrites will be down enough to make a reading lower than 5 or even be at 0! If they are I'll go ahead and dose ammonia for another couple of days just to make sure everything still converts then do a large water change and add Patron`, my betta.

You should wait until ammonia and nitrite get processed to 0 ppm in 12 hours for 7 days in a row before adding fish. The wait is called a "qualifying week", it will prove that the bacterial colony is stable.

Then it'll be off to the store to get some platys and mollies, an otto and maybe some corys. What do y'all think? Mollies and Platys go well with a betta? I've also heard that corys need to be kept in schools, is that true?

Depends on the tank size: I'd want a 2+ ft tank for platys or a 3+ ft tank for mollies and would not mix livebearers. Yes, Corys are schooling fish so do best in groups of 6+, and more realistically, 10-15+. Yes, that is achievable with dwarf and pygmy Corys, even in small tanks. Otos also often do better in groups and they require specialised feeding, so it is often best to not add them before the tank is a few months old and has a nice layer of algae.

 

[BIGbadJOHN]

I think I'll be stocking fish before I know it. Heading out of town for the day to wish my dad a Happy Father's Day so I'll check everything again when I get back and hopefully nitrites will be down enough to make a reading lower than 5 or even be at 0! If they are I'll go ahead and dose ammonia for another couple of days just to make sure everything still converts then do a large water change and add Patron`, my betta.

You should wait until ammonia and nitrite get processed to 0 ppm in 12 hours for 7 days in a row before adding fish. The wait is called a "qualifying week", it will prove that the bacterial colony is stable.

Then it'll be off to the store to get some platys and mollies, an otto and maybe some corys. What do y'all think? Mollies and Platys go well with a betta? I've also heard that corys need to be kept in schools, is that true?

Depends on the tank size: I'd want a 2+ ft tank for platys or a 3+ ft tank for mollies and would not mix livebearers. Yes, Corys are schooling fish so do best in groups of 6+, and more realistically, 10-15+. Yes, that is achievable with dwarf and pygmy Corys, even in small tanks. Otos also often do better in groups and they require specialised feeding, so it is often best to not add them before the tank is a few months old and has a nice layer of algae.

Within 12 hours? For 7 days? All the information I've read says 5 ppm ammonia converted to nitrates fully within 24 hours. This seems like a little overkill to me. And I seriously can't put any mollies OR platys in a 10 gallon tank? What exactly can I put in a 10 gallon tank?

 

[Randi]

In a 10 gallon you could have the betta, a school of small tetras or rasboras, and a few dwarf or pygmy cories (if you have sand). My 10 gallon houses a betta, 6 neons, and a bunch of shrimp. Shrimp add almost nothing to the bioload and they eat algae so I recommend them as long as you are aware that your betta will most likely eat the baby shrimp.

 

[BIGbadJOHN]

Just did another water test at around midnight.

pH 7.8-8.0
ammo 0
nitrite 5+ ppm
nitrate 160 ppm

So hopefully the nitrites are still being converted. Should I go ahead and dose the tank back to 4ppm ammonia? How long will the bacteria be ok without a food source of ammonia? I don't want to kill off any bacteria by starving them, but I don't want to keep dosing up with ammonia and therefore keep jacking up the nitrite levels higher and higher.

 

[BIGbadJOHN]

In a 10 gallon you could have the betta, a school of small tetras or rasboras, and a few dwarf or pygmy cories (if you have sand). My 10 gallon houses a betta, 6 neons, and a bunch of shrimp. Shrimp add almost nothing to the bioload and they eat algae so I recommend them as long as you are aware that your betta will most likely eat the baby shrimp.

Really? No mollies or platys? My wife is in love with the mickey mouse platys and if it's at all possible I'll have some in there as long as it's possible. I do have some nice pool filter sand on the bottom layered on top of some CaribSea FloraMax. I like the shrimp idea though.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Suitable fish for a 10 gallon tank.


You could get some platys, but it isn't advised.

 

[Miles_hot]

Yes, re-dose the ammonia but not to 4, rather do it to 2ppm - the n bacs have more than enough nitrite to eat and you don't want to push the concentration too high as I think it encourages the wrong sort to grow.

 

[KittyKat]

I think I'll be stocking fish before I know it. Heading out of town for the day to wish my dad a Happy Father's Day so I'll check everything again when I get back and hopefully nitrites will be down enough to make a reading lower than 5 or even be at 0! If they are I'll go ahead and dose ammonia for another couple of days just to make sure everything still converts then do a large water change and add Patron`, my betta.

You should wait until ammonia and nitrite get processed to 0 ppm in 12 hours for 7 days in a row before adding fish. The wait is called a "qualifying week", it will prove that the bacterial colony is stable.

Within 12 hours? For 7 days? All the information I've read says 5 ppm ammonia converted to nitrates fully within 24 hours. This seems like a little overkill to me.

I would not be recommending it if it was not the best thing for the fish. If you do not make sure the bacteria are well established, you risk harming the fish. Yes, many cycles which do not go through the full qualifying week have problems.

Then it'll be off to the store to get some platys and mollies, an otto and maybe some corys. What do y'all think? Mollies and Platys go well with a betta? I've also heard that corys need to be kept in schools, is that true?

Depends on the tank size: I'd want a 2+ ft tank for platys or a 3+ ft tank for mollies and would not mix livebearers. Yes, Corys are schooling fish so do best in groups of 6+, and more realistically, 10-15+. Yes, that is achievable with dwarf and pygmy Corys, even in small tanks. Otos also often do better in groups and they require specialised feeding, so it is often best to not add them before the tank is a few months old and has a nice layer of algae.

And I seriously can't put any mollies OR platys in a 10 gallon tank? What exactly can I put in a 10 gallon tank?

Depending on species, mollies may grow up to 6", so the tank would then be barely big enough for them to turn around in. Platys may grow up to 3" and are quite bulky.

Any small schooling fish should be fine, such as ember tetras, dwarf Corys, espei rasboras, and so on. Also, small livebearers would be fine too: think Endlers, for example.

 

[BIGbadJOHN]

I did about a 90% water change today around noon because the ammonia was at 0 once again and the nitrites and nitrates were at maximum levels still. After the water change I dosed in about an 1/8 teaspoon of ammonia which should be about 2-3 ppm dosage since 1/4 tsp is 4ppm. Here are the new ammo, nitrite, and nitrate levels 6-7 hours later at 7pm:

ammo: 0
nitrite: 5+
nitrate: 40-80

Should the nitrites produced be in conjunction with the ammonia converted? For example, if 2 ppm of ammonia is converted should the nitrite produced from that be 2ppm? Or will it be a much larger number, such as I am getting? I go to work at 10pm tonight and get off at 7 am so I'll check the nitrites again when I get home and hopefully they've dropped this time and even better they'll be no reading at all! Thanks for all you guys' help with this. I'll keep y'all posted on what's going on.