Doing A Fishless Cycle But Ammonia Levels Aren't Dropping..?

[waterdrop]

Hey Nim,

I'm just going from things read on TFF. I respect RDD a lot and he has written about trying a number of temp variations in the tanks he has cycled and I also believe he is good at distilling a lot of wide reading on TFF and elsewhere.

One other bit I found were some interesting discussions by some of the experienced people about oxygen levels in aquariums (sorry, didn't save which threads, but they were here on TFF somewhere.) The take I got from them was that oxygen levels are actually pretty high in typical cycling and running tank situations. I'll have to try and find those refs.

Regards, waterdrop

 

[rdd1952]

Can't add a lot to what has been said so far other than to ask what your pH is. As pH levels drop into the low 6s, bacterial reproduction slows severely.

 

[waterdrop]

OK, so for those following this discussion, I'll attempt to attach below the link to the discussion of oxygen (you have to read the whole thing to find interesting bits) I was referring to:

http/www.fishforums.net/content/Scientif...ation-Of-Water/

(hope this works, let me know if not)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

If the gravel you got 2 days ago was from a working fish tank, it should definitely give your cycle a boost.It will have both kinds of bacteria in it and you could start to see a rapid change in the water parameters. Once you get the ammonia converters going, the others are probably also going to be present in large enough numbers to get you going through the nitrite conversion process. Once the ammonia starts dropping fast, don't forget to start adding more ammonia so the nitrite eaters can multiply and get your tank really ready for fish.

 

[Reeveso]

I'm still getting no changes!!

It's been like 10 days already and the ammonia level is still at about 4 and nitrites are still at ZERO.

What am I doing wrong? I don't get it!

Exactly how much oxygen do I need? I have about a 4 square inch area of bubbles constantly where the filter water comes down hitting the water but that's it.

I have a 29 gallon tank by the way, in case that matters for anything.

Should I be doing anything else?

Jeremy

 

[rdd1952]

The higher temperature will definitely lower the O2 level. For a fishless cycle, you either need an airpump and airstones (preferred) or to lower the water level enough to allow for extra surface disturbance as the water returns from the filter outllet. Also, what is your pH? That could be your whole problem.

 

[Colin_T]

Just let the tank run. If it has only been 10 days then it won't have cycled yet. Normally it takes about 4 weeks, sometimes less, sometimes more. Warm water and high oxygen levels help but the two are contradictory so just try to get as much surface turbulence as you can and keep the temperature between 20 & 30C.

Patience grasshopper, the fish will come to you when the water is ready. Now take the stone from my hand

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Patience grasshopper, the fish will come to you when the water is ready. Now take the stone from my hand

lol

yup as rdd said, check your pH, if it's below 6 then that's your problem and you need to raise it up.

while you do need to have patience I do feel you should see some movement in the next few days, if the pH is fine, and it gets to 14 days and nothings happened, then do a massive 90% water change and start over, sometimes it just needs a kick start or there could be some contaminent in your water (flukes happen from time to time, water processing plant fails and you get manky water for a day or two, know a few people who've had whole tanks wiped out like this) that's preventing bacteria growth. big water change should help if that is the case, but give it a little bit more tme first

 

[Nim]

know a few people who've had whole tanks wiped out like this) that's preventing bacteria growth. big water change should help if that is the case, but give it a little bit more tme first

I am one of them. Had a 120gallon Tanganyikan tank wiped out overnight after a water change Tested the water and everything was fine so can only blame the water change/tap water.. And I did use a good water conditioner Stress coat during those days.

Nim
ps: Patience is the key to fish keeping. The more patience you have, the better success you will get.

 

[Reeveso]

Last time I checked the PH was around 8 - it's pretty high naturally I guess lol

I'll check it again today though and see.

The only thing wrong w/ lower the water level is that the heater has a minimum level and it's going to be way below that..so that would be too good lol

I'll try the water change at the end of the weekend if nothing happens and see if that works.

Thanks!

 

[twistedlink]

My waters pH is 8, and 8.2+ on 5ppm of ammonia and mines processed in 3 days, (5-6ppm day 1, then 4-5ppm day 2, then 0.25ppm day 3)

So i dont think its the pH, but meh, im new to cycling as well so could be wrong there

 

[waterdrop]

Patience grasshopper, the fish will come to you when the water is ready. Now take the stone from my hand

lol

yup as rdd said, check your pH, if it's below 6 then that's your problem and you need to raise it up.

while you do need to have patience I do feel you should see some movement in the next few days, if the pH is fine, and it gets to 14 days and nothings happened, then do a massive 90% water change and start over, sometimes it just needs a kick start or there could be some contaminent in your water (flukes happen from time to time, water processing plant fails and you get manky water for a day or two, know a few people who've had whole tanks wiped out like this) that's preventing bacteria growth. big water change should help if that is the case, but give it a little bit more tme first

For me, I think one of those "Kick Start Water Changes" worked! I was fishless cycling at 88 degrees F with lots of turbulence from spray bar and two airstones and had reached 19 days with no drop in ammonia and just 0.25 NO2 showing up (tap NO2 is zero) so on the weekend I did a 75% water change and put the ammonia back up to about 4-5ppm and only a day or so later I've finally got a strong purple spike going in NO2. This is just one data-point of course but several members suggested the kick-start and I'm pretty excited that it worked. I also found myself wondering whether the level of green in my ammonia test perhaps meant higher ammonia than my interpretation of the chart - I mean you just start wondering, what if your particular test kit is a little off in this respect.. probably just impatience!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

nope high pH shouldn't cause issues, it's low pH to watch out for when cycling.

 

[waterdrop]

nope high pH shouldn't cause issues, it's low pH to watch out for when cycling.

Tell me about it! I just dashed home from work to let the cat out and tested our ammonia again and its down to 6 still, so will have to do a larger water change and recharge the ammonia tonight, just so that my second bac population won't stall...

 

[Colin_T]

if the ammonia levels are at 6ppm then don't add anymore until it drops to 1 or 2ppm. If the levels get too high the bacteria won't eat it and the cycling process can stall. You normally try to keep the ammonia levels around 5ppm.