Doggiebag's First Fishless Cycle - Juwel Rekord 600

[doggiebag]

Im guessing my ammonia may be at/near 0 tomorrow morning.......should I redose the full 4-5ppm, or just 2ppm to ease the nitrite spike??

 

[sjolliff]

With my cycle when my nitrites are off scale for a couple of days then i got to 2ppm
but seen as your nearly 0 and you say you nitrites will be off scale 2moz i would dose 2ppm of ammonia,
they will take ages to come down

 

[waterdrop]

Agree, coming down to 2 or 3ppm during the nitrite spike phase will help you to see the end of that phase a bit sooner than otherwise and may help to not lower pH as much over the long haul. Now that you are getting in to the nitrite spike its important to realize it may be the beginning of a rather long boring period and you just have to stick with it and not get discouraged.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[doggiebag]

Okay Guys, will take your advice......

Waterdrop: it gets even more boring than waiting 16 days for ammonia to reach zero !!! Oh geez..........lol

Okay stats this morning.....

Day 16: 25/08/09: ph 8.2, ammonia 0, nitrites 5+ (drops purple in bottle), nitrates 40-80 (I find this test hard to read past 40, but its definitely much darker than Im used to seeing on any of my tanks)

I added 1ml of ammonia back, then retested it at 2ppm, will keep dosing at that level till I see nitrites drop, in the distant future lol

 

[doggiebag]

Day 17: 26/08/09: Ph 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 5+ (drops turned purple but test goes darkest purple after 5mins, so not as high as it can go, yet)
added 1.2ml ammonia (2-3ppm)

 

[doggiebag]

Day 18: 27/08/09: Ammonia 0, Nitrites 5+ added 2ppm ammonia back in

Day 19: 28/08/09: Ph 8.1, Ammonia 0, Nitrites 5+, Nitrates 80+ (hard to read), added 2ppm ammonia back in

then, to be sure, I tested nitrites at 1/20 strength, got a reading of 1.0, tested nitrates at 1/20 got a reading of 20, so that would put nitrites at 20 and nitrates at 400 ish.............I thought the nitrite test went turquoise when its off the chart? Mine goes the darkest purple on the sheet........but dilutes to 1/20=1.0................

 

[waterdrop]

I thought the turquoise thing was something that happened sometimes but was not that predictable. I believe its been described as a turquoise (blue/green) sheen look to the dark purple drops as they sink and sit at the bottom of the test tube, then, once its mixed and sits it either ends up a weird reddish purple or, rarely, a light green/blue that's much more green the the light sky blue that indicates zero ppm.

Inexpensive reagent liquid tests that replace lengthy analytical lab procedures are never going to be magically perfect, so its always good for the user to take into account the context of when the test is being performed. For instance if one is just a week into the "nitrite spike phase" then it wouldn't be surprising to get a "maxed out" behaviour from the test.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[doggiebag]

thanks Waterdrop, was used to seeing people talk about the turquoise colour after the purple drops, at least I know its okay. My nitrate test was showing deep red for any dilution, it was almost end of bottle so got a new one and it is testing better now, I was able to get the diluted test from this one

Is there a limit to how high the nitrates should go before a waterchange? I think I read somewhere that really high nitrates can stop the nitrite bacs growing

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, we tend to go "back and forth" about this. On the one hand we like to avoid water changes during fishless cycling, feeling that they just make a short interruption of the process and thus slow things down a tiny bit. On the other hand all of us who I've seen helping out on fishless cycles in the past 1.5 year or so will often advise a "kickstart" via water change when a fishless cycle seems to "stall", especially of course if the pH is too low.

There is a fair amount of discussion in the scientific literature that goes on among the people who research and manage WWTPs (waste water treatment plants) about these same bacteria that we use (because they cultivate and use them too!) In that literature there are interesting indications that high nitrite and/or high nitrate levels may not be the environment in which the nitrite oxidizers grow the fastest. So, indirectly, there's some feeling that occasional water changes during the latter part of the nitrite spike phase and certainly the period beyond that might benefit from it.

As far as actually doing them, its the usual "during-fishless" type of change, its always 90% (because there's no meaning to doing less when there aren't fish there, basically) and then you need to remember to condition, temp-match and of course recharge the ammonia back to 5ppm or whatever ppm level you're currently doing.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[doggiebag]

well my ph is fine at 8.1, dropped from 8.2 so nothing drastic there.....nitrites appear to be approx 20 with nitrates at around 400, so is this still in the okay range, requiring no waterchange?
Will be starting another smaller tank tomorrow, for shrimp, sucker for punishment lol

 

[doggiebag]

Day 20: 29/08/09: Ammonia 0, Nitrites 5+ (purple drops), Nitrates unreadable..........colour not on chart. Added 2ppm ammonia back in

Day 21: 30/08/09: Ph 8.1, Ammonia 0, Nitrites 5+ (purple drops), Nitrates unreadable again......Added 2ppm ammonia back in

Okay, what is happening with nitrates? Usually when I put first bottle in the water goes pure yello, then when I add bottle 2 and shake for a min, the mix turns orange and then develops into deep orange/red over the 5 min............this is what is happening in my other tanks.......
however, for the past 2 days in this tank the first bottle turns a deep golden brown in the tube, then I add bottle two and shake, no change, then over the 5 min wait it doesn't change, just stays a deep golden brown.................how on earth do I interpret this? What is happening. does nitrate test act odd if off scale???

 

[bob9009]

Day 20: 29/08/09: Ammonia 0, Nitrites 5+ (purple drops), Nitrates unreadable..........colour not on chart. Added 2ppm ammonia back in

Day 21: 30/08/09: Ph 8.1, Ammonia 0, Nitrites 5+ (purple drops), Nitrates unreadable again......Added 2ppm ammonia back in

Okay, what is happening with nitrates? Usually when I put first bottle in the water goes pure yello, then when I add bottle 2 and shake for a min, the mix turns orange and then develops into deep orange/red over the 5 min............this is what is happening in my other tanks.......
however, for the past 2 days in this tank the first bottle turns a deep golden brown in the tube, then I add bottle two and shake, no change, then over the 5 min wait it doesn't change, just stays a deep golden brown.................how on earth do I interpret this? What is happening. does nitrate test act odd if off scale???

Hey mate, I had the same problem earlier in my fishless cycle. While nitrite is really high (mine was well over 100ppm) you can't get an accurate nitrate reading. My test did the same thing as yours (go a weird orange/brown colour when the first solution was added), but then mine lightened up after adding the second solution. Basically, it's not worth testing for nitrate until your nitrite level is at (or near) 0ppm.

 

[doggiebag]

brilliant, thanks for that Bob...........I was beginning to think my test was bad, feel so much better now I know you have had the same. I had heard about the nitrite test giving odd results but not seen anything about the nitrate one doing it too.

Will just sit it out then

 

[yasinullah]

am having the same issue also, I thought it was the bicarb of soda i added, good to know why its happening though, thanks bob9009!

 

[bob9009]

Glad I could be of assistance