Does Flourish excel effect shrimp?

[BettaBettas]

I have heard Flourish excel (seachum) does effect shrimp and some people say it doesn't? anyone have a straight yes or no answer with proof? (by proof I meant/mean experience you've had)

 

[cooledwhip]

Proof? I don't know what you mean by proof but if you take my word as proof then that's great. I have dosed excel for weeks on my 20 gallon with shrimp last year. They were fine and breeding profusely, the only reason I lost my colony was because my grandmother overfed algae wafers for some reason.

 

[BettaBettas]

Proof? I don't know what you mean by proof but if you take my word as proof then that's great. I have dosed excel for weeks on my 20 gallon with shrimp last year. They were fine and breeding profusely, the only reason I lost my colony was because my grandmother overfed algae wafers for some reason.

lol, thanks for your input! I think I will add some, like 1/10th of a cap of it to the tank today and see if they have a reaction at all. lets hope they don't!

 

[NickAu]

thanks for your input! I think I will add some, like 1/10th of a cap of it to the tank today and see if they have a reaction at all. lets hope they don't!

When adding any chemicals to you tank you should be as precise as possible, Use a syringe to measure it out.

On initial use or after a major (> 40%) water change, use 1 capful (5 mL) for every 40 L (10 US gallons). Thereafter use 1 capful for every 200 L (50 US gallons) daily or every other day. For smaller dosing please note that each cap thread is approximately 1 mL.

 

[cooledwhip]

When adding any chemicals to you tank you should be as precise as possible, Use a syringe to measure it out.

I use dental syringes. Not so much of as a syringe, it's plastic so no needle. It can't puncture your skin but it's super accurate and easy to work like a syringe.

 

[NickAu]

As I'm a diabetic I use 1 ml insulin syringes, I have boxes of them and in Australia they are free.

 

[Toney]

I use my insulin syringes also...

I buy mine at wally world

 

[StandbySetting]

Dose as per instructions and you'll have no issues.

 

[Byron]

I don't fathom how it is possible to say that this product is "safe." You could put a tablespoon of pure bleach in the tank and it would be just as "safe," perhaps even more so. When we realize that every substance added to the water will get inside the fish, and I am assuming invertebrates can be affected, "safe" is not necessarily "safe."

Excel is a so-called liquid carbon supplement, comprised of glutaraldehyde and water. If you don't know how toxic this chemical is, read here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutaraldehyde

I assume you may think the plants need additional carbon, but the natural occurring CO2 is likely sufficient unless you are running a high-tech system. There may be other nutrients in lower levels, such as nitrogen (ammonia/ammonium).

Byron.

 

[**sarahp**]

It is not possible to say that this product is "safe." You could put a tablespoon of pure bleach in the tank and it would be just as "safe," but why would you? "Safe" is not necessarily "safe."

Excel is a so-called liquid carbon supplement, comprised of glutaraldehyde and water. If you don't know how toxic this chemical is, read here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutaraldehyde

If you really want to add something this toxic, so be it. But it is unnecessary as the natural CO2 is likely going to be sufficient for the plants.

This is very interesting. 8+ years ago when I first got into the hobby I was told to use Flourish Excel and Comprehensive for my plants. They never did very well and the fish were always a bit sickly and came down with every bug going - or that's how it felt!

So I stopped using both products and the fish seemed happier, the plants didnt alter much so I never bothered with ferts again.

However, I have recently, after reading about how toxic excel is, started again with just comprehensive and the difference is amazing!! The plants are doing great and the fish aren't getting ill!

I wouldn't put excel down the loo - it's terrible stuff and shouldn't be allowed into the water table as far as I'm concerned!

 

[StandbySetting]

For heavens sake - there's a lot of scare mongering going on here - it has been used by hundreds in the planted community with no ill effects for a decade, if you stick to the recommended dosage it is perfectly safe - it is worth noting that some truly aquatic plants are sensitive to it such as Valliseneria. Besides there's no real need to dose it on low tech set ups - only plants in setups with moderate to high lighting will benefit. The only benefit in a low tech setup I can see is that it is an algacide. Also note - it has a half life of approx 7 hours so deteriorates quickly - always best to dose before lights on - it will never be as good a substitute as CO2 injection, but a combination of CO2 and liquid carbon does yield good results.

Ps. Whilst a bit of an exaggerated comparison - Oxygen kills you - is it deemed dangerous? Not particularly.

 

[Byron]

it has been used by hundreds in the planted community with no ill effects for a decade, if you stick to the recommended dosage it is perfectly safe - it is worth noting that some truly aquatic plants are sensitive to it such as Valliseneria.

My point (which I apologize for if it wasn't clear) is that you cannot possibly know this, unless you are a fish forced to live with such chemicals passing into its bloodstream. Just because a fish does not die does not mean it is not somehow being affected. One could just as truthfully make out a case that smoking causes no harm to anyone just because one smokes and thinks all is well.

Second point is that the very fact that this will kill some plants outright is indicative of its risk and danger. I am not an aquarist that thinks it wise to ignore this fact. The fact that it does also (as you mention further on in the original post) kill algae in some situations is again a warning, or should be.

Your point about oxygen is true...but there is a vast difference with what is occurring within the very narrow confines of any aquarium. And the nature of the relationship of a fish to its aquatic environment is extremely different to any terrestrial animal including humans. Land animals can manage or cope with toxins much, much more easily than fish. The less chemicals entering an aquarium, the healthier will be the fish simply because their physiology is not being hampered as much.

This next point is simply one to illustrate the extreme sensitivity of the aquatic environment. There was an item in the news yesterday about large areas of the Great Barrier Reef dying because of the ocean temperature rising just one degree. If the land temperature over Australia rose 1 degree, there would not be such a dramatic result among the fauna. It is indeed a very different world under water.

Byron.

 

[NickAu]

I don't fathom how it is possible to say that this product is "safe."

I agree,

When adding any chemicals to you tank you should be as precise as possible, Use a syringe to measure it out.

Most of the regular members here know I do not use any ferts in my tanks, Like Byron I believe the less of that stuff you put in your tank the better. but if you are going to use additives be accurate, 1/10 of a cap full means nothing to me as its not an accurate measurement, Yet a 1/10 of a milliliter is.

There is only 1 product I use and trust, Easy Life Fluid Filter Media, and even then I use it as per instructions.

Easy Life 500ml Aquarium Water Conditioner - The Tech Den

 

[BettaBettas]

I use my insulin syringes also...

I buy mine at wally world

For heavens sake - there's a lot of scare mongering going on here - it has been used by hundreds in the planted community with no ill effects for a decade, if you stick to the recommended dosage it is perfectly safe - it is worth noting that some truly aquatic plants are sensitive to it such as Valliseneria. Besides there's no real need to dose it on low tech set ups - only plants in setups with moderate to high lighting will benefit. The only benefit in a low tech setup I can see is that it is an algacide. Also note - it has a half life of approx 7 hours so deteriorates quickly - always best to dose before lights on - it will never be as good a substitute as CO2 injection, but a combination of CO2 and liquid carbon does yield good results.

Ps. Whilst a bit of an exaggerated comparison - Oxygen kills you - is it deemed dangerous? Not particularly.

is it truly toxic and will kill valliseneria? I have some for the background (Italian valliseneria)

I agree,




Most of the regular members here know I do not use any ferts in my tanks, Like Byron I believe the less of that stuff you put in your tank the better. but if you are going to use additives be accurate, 1/10 of a cap full means nothing to me as its not an accurate measurement, Yet a 1/10 of a milliliter is.

There is only 1 product I use and trust, Easy Life Fluid Filter Media, and even then I use it as per instructions.

Easy Life 500ml Aquarium Water Conditioner - The Tech Den

I should have been more specific and knew I couldn't post a joke in a serious questions.
1/10th of a cap was an accurate dosage, but I didn't do that that's hardly possible by hand. I went to walmart and bought a basic syringe.

 

[Byron]

Yes, Excel (and API's CO2 Booster, which is the same toxic chemical) will kill Vallisneria species. There are some other plants it kills too, I just can't remember which at the moment.