Do I Need A Nutrient Substrate / Ferts?

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Luketendo

Luketendo

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Hmm, what does the Tom Barr thing involve? I didn't really understand the bit of ferts. Just having 3 substrates which are quite expensive is a bit much. I'd probably rather go really low tech, I don't really mind the growth rates, I mind the algae.

I'll try figure out what he suggests.

1.5-2.0 WPG Light
Onyx Sand and Leonardite

Nah i'm just confused about it.

I want to make my tank stable with plants (but i'd really like a heavily planted tank, without CO2, Algae and at the smallest cost possible.
 

Underwurlde

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It's the onyx sand that's expensive i think? & you don't HAVE to have Leonardite. Just think about Normal gravel sand on top of Tropica Aquacare Plant Substrate. That would be an excellent substrate to start with IMHO.

Don't be put off by the dosing of ferts bit. That is a simple one week oppo using inexpensive dry ferts (buy on-line) and liquid stuff.

If I were you, go fpr the hybrid approach. El Natural can be quite daunting for the beginner and it is not entierly algae free....

Andy
 
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Ok, can you make a list of what i'd need since I have to go soon? Just write down substrates lighting ferts etc. I'm going to buy most of my stuff from aqua essentials hopefully. Also how much Tropica Substrate 2.5L or 5L for 60x30cm. Could I use sand on top?

Oops the website recommends 1.8L for my size so the smaller one would do.

Bye for tonight and thanks/

Ok so..

Tropica Plant Substrate 2.5L
Some Sand of some sort (Might just use Argos Playsand, Since it's cheap)
Interpet T5 Compact Starter Unit 36W - 2.1 WPG
Tropica Plant Nutrition+
SeaChem Flourish Excel

All good?
 

Underwurlde

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Sorry had to catch some Z's last night.

Tropica Plant Substrate 2.5L
Some Sand of some sort (Might just use Argos Playsand, Since it's cheap)
Interpet T5 Compact Starter Unit 36W - 2.1 WPG
Tropica Plant Nutrition+
SeaChem Flourish Excel
Sounds good to me.

I, & many ppl here dose NPK using dry ferts - far far far cheaper. If you want to know how / where to get this stuff just ask.

Do you live in a softwater area BTW?

Andy
 

Underwurlde

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OK, with dry ferts you'll still need to dose Trace, i.e. SeaChem Flourish Trace, so factor that into your costs.

You live in a hardwater area, so no need for SeaChem Equilibrium.

Get dry ferts from here: www.gardendirect.co.uk

Get some Potassium Nitrate (KN03) - this is a source of N & K
Get some Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4) - this is a source of P & K.

Every week, to suppliment the substrate (due to the higer growth rates expected from Hybrid), add a pinch of each to the tank water. Your plants will tell you if you need to add slightly more (by showing signs of defficency).

So, the initial outlay for dry ferts is (ever so slightly) higher, but the two boxes you order should last > a year for a small tank.

Andy
 
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Luketendo

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So i'm not using Tropica Plant Nutrition+ anymore?

So I need SeaChem Flourish Trace, Do I still need SeaChem Flourish Excel?

Potassium Nitrate: http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?...roducts_id=1558

Potassium Phosphate: http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?...roducts_id=1557

They also do a trace mix, is it any good? Could replace SeaChem Flourish Trace I suppose: http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?...products_id=546


How long would 100g last on my 65L?
Also how much is a pinch? Maybe if I diluted them I could dose my accurately. I'd just need to know how much water and powder to dilute and how many ml to add.
 

Underwurlde

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So i'm not using Tropica Plant Nutrition+ anymore?
Nope, not if you are going to get the dry ferts that provide NPK now instead of that from Tropica PN+. The other nutrients that are included in Tropica should come from your tap water as you live in a hard water area.

So I need SeaChem Flourish Trace...
Yep. Once every week when you add a pinch each of the dry.

Do I still need SeaChem Flourish Excel?
Yes. That's the whole idea of Hybrid approach. In a strictly 'El Natural' tank, NO carbon is added (it comes naturally from other sources). Now when you want better growth, you first need a little more lighting and to this end a little more carbon and this is the reason for adding in the Excel. This then drives growth which would cause plant deficencies (God I hate that poxy word) if it were not for the fact that NPK & trace ferts are added. It's a chain reaction you see?

They also do a trace mix, is it any good? Could replace SeaChem Flourish Trace I suppose: http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.php?...products_id=546
Never used it.

How long would 100g last on my 65L?
Let's say a year is a good a guess as any!

Also how much is a pinch?
The amount you can pinch between thumb & forefinger without being over zealous.

Maybe if I diluted them I could dose my accurately. I'd just need to know how much water and powder to dilute and how many ml to add.
You could. This is called making your own PMDD (poor man's dosing drops). I used to but it is a pain. Just drop the dry stuff in! No faffing



Andy
 

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PS The dry ferts are cheaper if you get them from www.gardendirect.co.uk Prices may have changes since I last looked at them though & don't forget about delivery costs!
 
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Tropica Plant Substrate 2.5L 15 pound
Argos Playsand 15kg - 2.50 Pound
Interpet T5 Compact Starter Unit 36W - 2.1 WPG+ - 20 Pound
SeaChem Flourish Excel 250ml 8 Pound
Potassium Nitrate 500g
Potassium Phosphate 500g
Above two 15 pound inc postage

Total Money I need:

60 Pounds, oh dear, doesn't include plants or bogwood and stuff either, i'll be saving for a while then XD.

I think I'll be waiting until Christmas to start unless I decide to get a paper round, but my fish will be snug in my new tank until then.

Also what would I keep my Dry Ferts in?
 
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I kind of feel like I want to do the El Natural idea, I'm not really too much of a beginner i've had my tank running for 2 years i've just been based off LFS advice the whole time, although they are Maidenhead Aquatics who are very trusted and they do give good advice. I wouldn't mind the El Natural thing but whatever.

I can now deal with algae better since I bought a decent scrapper, one with metal on, worked a treat.
 

Underwurlde

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Yep, not cheap keeping plants is it? Esp for a teenager...

But this is considered a cheap method, & once you've splashed out on the initial layout, v. cheap from thereon in
Hell, you be lucky just to get a pressurized CO2 system for £60.

Also what would I keep my Dry Ferts in?
A couple of sealable tupperware pots. £3 each(ish) at Tescos et al.

Andy
 
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Well I have live plants at the moment except the problem is they got eaten my algae and half dead.

I just splashed out 80 pound+ on my 35L tank just so I can redo my big tank and so I can quarantine and stuff this time round.
 
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