Discus Journal...

Sweet deal senor I want big fish!

So are discus good eating or not I hope im not wasting my time here.
 
Well, worming them even if they don't need it won't do any harm, so it's worth a try. I would also cut the dried food from the diet and consider offering medicated frozen food to suppliment the general cure. I worm my discus with Jhonson's puppy worming syrup. Add 5ml of it to 20ml of water and soak some defrosted frozen food in the watered down wormer for about half an hour. Strain and serve. The fish can smell the wormer, so don't be too shocked if they refuse it a couple of times before taking it :lol: I still suspect bloating prersonally, and cutting the dried food will mean less of a nitrate build-up anyway during the 5 days where you can't waterchange. Offer frozen medicated food and some veg during the course of wormer. Like the wormer, cutting the dired food and increasing fibre intake for a short while won't do any harm, but after 5 or so days, go back to normal :good:

All the best
Rabbut
 
They have white poo! I compared to pics online and think its a tapeworm. Instructions said to treat with Prazi!

On a lighter note, I went to the grocery store to pick up a can of peas. When I picked it up I knocked another can on the ground accidentally. Well, that caused me a bit of a mixup, anyway, I get home and take the can out of the bag to see that I ended up with lima beans. Good news is the fish seemed to like them.
 
They have white poo! I compared to pics online and think its a tapeworm. Instructions said to treat with Prazi!

On a lighter note, I went to the grocery store to pick up a can of peas. When I picked it up I knocked another can on the ground accidentally. Well, that caused me a bit of a mixup, anyway, I get home and take the can out of the bag to see that I ended up with lima beans. Good news is the fish seemed to like them.

Not sure if lima beans do the same thing, but it's still good for this fish. I would offer this to them once every few weeks as a treat.
 
Now can I just treat the water with the prazi? Are there any other special things I need to know about this? How much do I add to a 55 gal? I know I need to remove the carbon from the HOB filter. I wish I would have seen the white poo earlier but I guess I wasnt really sure what I Was looking for until I saw pictures of white poo.

I didnt expect them to act so normal with a parasite I guess. I hope no serious damage has been done.
 
I would have thought you would have to treat the water in the tank with Prazi, but it isn't a med I have ever used before, so wait for DiscusLova to confirm that one.

I'm still skeptical about parasites. I used to offer the Ocean Nutrition Disucs mix to mine, and found that it made them pass white poo.... Poo is a lighter colour version of whatever is was when it went in the other end IME, and the discus mix is gray. This means under certain lights it might well make the poo of the fish it was fed to appear abnormal. Try pull some poo out and examine it under daylight, to see if it is traced grey, rather than white as it appears now.

If it is an internal infection you are looking at though, I'd recomend medicated food personally, and IME it is more effetive than most medications used as a bath (dosed in the aquarium water)

All the best
Rabbut
 
Im 100% sure on parasites. I treated with Prazi a few hours ago.

Heres a pic of a white poo that was just passed.
You can see it attached to the edge of the plant.
IMG_0322.jpg
 
looking a the video those fish are fine, stop panicking before you start harming them.
 
How on earth would deworming them harm them when people do it as a preventative when they dont even show symptoms? Mine are clearly pooping white and its not from the ocean nutrition mix because only 2 of the 5 fish eat it. That 30 second clip is hardly an insight into the strange behavior that these fish continue to show. Im not in a panic, ive had them for months and they recently started acting strangely.

You're honestly telling me that they are breathing normally?

I dont think im being a hypochondriac but I guess It's possible.
 
in the space of this thread:-

worries about the environment... ie plants/substrate
temperature..... 86f/30c is generally accepted as being perfect, 83f/28c as acceptable in planted tanks ( though not ideal for juveniles)
Feeding....( just feed them loads.)
parasites... non specific
flukes
poor filter maintenance.... (this is the one piece of kit you cannot afford to have fail.)
white poo...

From the video:-

which is all i have to go on ;)

bright colours
open and erect finnage
active in all parts of the tank.
elevated breathing, but not excessive.

Discus with parasite or disease problems do not behave like this, they clamp fins, hide in corners & turn dark/black, 95% of the time & nearly 100% of the time if the infection/infestation is serious.

It is always difficult to analyse problems over a forum, but here is my take given the info so far:-

They are basically OK, maybe a little stunted, but that is not a health issue per se
Possibly some low level irritants in the tank, hence the change in behaviour, shimmying etc.
Some feeding difficulties

If they were mine I would:-

Check your water again, and also the water you are using for water changes.... how do you prepare it ?

Given their reaction to recent water changes the water board may have changed something & this is upsetting them a little.... possibly chloramine, so check for ammonia in the incoming water. Have you changed the way you do anything, new equipment?

Check water temp with a thermometer, electronic or glass preferably, stick on & heaterstats are notoriously unreliable/inaccurate.

Also how much does the tank temp change during a water change?

Feeding... make sure they all get some, & try different types & brands, even live bloodworm if they go off their food. This can cause problems, (because it can very occasionally contain something you might not want in the tank)but if they are not eating then you have a major problem already. Don't worry about "protein content" or any other rubbish... just feed them loads.

remember, just because you think it is good, or the manufacturer or other fishkeeper says their fish love it, if they wont eat it it is no good for your fish. Make sure teh discus get a chance, often others dart in & the discus loose out.

White poo can be : - tapeworm, indicative of columnaris infection, or just not eating/not eating enough. Discus pass the intestinal slime lining if they do not eat and it looks just like a white poo.... Given the situation I would nearly always go with feeding....especially given their other behaviour., but worms are a possibility....well not now, so we eliminate worms YA?

the above 2 obviously go together, as prazi also kills flukes & many other ectoparasites they are sorted too...

If there is any gill damage... flukes or other contaminants it can take several weeks for gills to repair.

Juvenile discus breath more rapidly than adults, they also breath heavier during & shortly after feeding. Elevated tank temps can also cause it.... 30c/86f max for prolonged periods, O2 levels drop rapidly with increased temps. given their appearance this is not a serious issue.


All medications are potentially harmful ( most are toxic at some level, that's how they kill things), and all will affect water quality to some degree, hence why you don't use if not required, or until you are sure about what you are treating.
 
"Discus with parasite or disease problems do not behave like this, they clamp fins, hide in corners & turn dark/black, 95% of the time & nearly 100% of the time if the infection/infestation is serious."

This is pretty much opposite of everything I know about parasites. I know that parasites do not benefit from killing of severly harming the hoast. They need the host to live. Thats what I was told at strictly discus site. That some types of tapeworm are less invasive than others.


"Check your water again, and also the water you are using for water changes.... how do you prepare it ?"

dechlorinated tap water

"Given their reaction to recent water changes the water board may have changed something & this is upsetting them a little.... possibly chloramine, so check for ammonia in the incoming water. Have you changed the way you do anything, new equipment?"

I tested the tap water very recently and it comes out of the tap with 0 ammonia. I do everything the way I have always done it. I have an electronic thermometor, the temp change in the tank during water changes is negligable, a degree or so at most.

"Feeding... make sure they all get some, & try different types & brands, even live bloodworm if they go off their food. This can cause problems, (because it can very occasionally contain something you might not want in the tank)but if they are not eating then you have a major problem already. Don't worry about "protein content" or any other rubbish... just feed them loads."

They eat anything and everything, with the exception of 3 of them either not likeing or getting a shot at that discus mix, which ill say again I rarely feed, im only trying to get rid of what I have.

"but worms are a possibility....well not now, so we eliminate worms YA?"

In a day or so ill know right? If I get a pic of a 6" tapeworm hanging out of a fish butt you have to buy me a beer. But im taking your advice since you have way more experience than me. I dont feel confident enough to state if I think they have gill damage or not. I take it that would be fairly obvious tho? I turned down my heater to 86F.

I would drink out of my fish tank, thats how confident I am about the water quality. Its better than Evian.

Cheers,
Jim
 
In essence, I agree with Mike. From the video, there is deffinately nothing serious wrong with them. As he says, parasites will caurse a fish to loose colour, hide away and clamp gills and fins. You somtimes also get flicking/rubbing with exturnal parasites, but not with internal ones.

I'm a little uncofortable about the breathing rate, but it isn't that fast realy TBH. It would make me suspect something was up and make me look carefully, but if I couldn't see anything, I would not think anything more of it untill other symptoms develop, or the breathing rate slows again.

White poo, Mike also covers well.

After dechlorinating your tap water, what results do you get. Results taken with the water still chlorinated mean nothing, as the conditioner will convert some things to ammonia or nitrites, that are then presant in the replacement water.

All the best
Rabbut
 
Ive been keeping up with maintaining the tank but I've pretty much lost any hope of seeing them grow and have pretty much lost interest in trying to figure out why. I did weeks of research and asking questions but havnt been able to come up with any answers. In the now 3 months ive had them i've seen no growth other than eyes. Guess this just isnt my niche. My girlfriend insists they have grown. I treated for worms and parasites, but they still poop strange. I cant get a good picture of any turds tho since the lcd screen on my digi cam is broke and my cell dosent take sharp enough pics.

I'm not interested in messing with water chemistry if that were an issue and I just cant do water changes anyway other than how I currently am. Its just not practical given my living situation. I can't install an RO unit or anything since I rent, and I have no room to store water for long periods of time since its a small place.
 
Sorry I did not reply sooner... this post did not come up in the "new posts" list till today..... Also I have been away to the European discus championships in Duisberg


3 months is nothing LOl... just starting to learn :rolleyes:

you have also chosen the hardest way to learn... small discus in a planted community.


Discus are very visible in their discomfort, if they are ill they let you know... usually quickly.

For growth ...feed more... with plenty of food they grow.also indicated by "strange" poo

unfortunately this means you need to clean more & waterchange more.....which is why we try & keep small discus in bare tanks

If they are alive after 3 months then water chem is unlikely to be an issue.

just because you would drink it does not mean its good enough....you drink beer, but I would not recommend trying to keep discus in it LOL

keep going & find out what works.... then later on you will have a better understanding of their needs & do better in the future
 
Actually, it turns out at least one has grown. There is a new dominant fish in the tank. The former smaller turk is now bossing around the one that was the largest. His shape is also much improved. He looks pretty good. The one who was the largest has a bad shape and larger eyes than the one who has outgrown him.

IMG_0371.jpg

Why are their patterns so different? Is one not a Red Turquoise?
 

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