Discus Journal...

[ReMz]

thx for the info, very much appreciated. i only see 1 pic as well.

As far as beef heart is concerned, I have read and heard on multiple occasions that it is very high in protein and good for cichlid growth. A quick google on beefheart had a lot of hits regarding discus. After all, it is lean muscle with virtually no fat content.

 

[Jim Curtis]

I edited the post to include the picture I was referring to. The pics of discus you said looked decent didnt belong to me. I didnt mean to mislead when I posted it, I just wanted to see what you guys would point out as the key differences, because at a glance, to a novice, they look identical to my fish.

DiscusLova, I dont think the colors on my fish look good. They Red Marlboros are orange still. At what age does a Red Marlboro turn red? I know thats a fairly common strand of Discus.

Also the Blue Cobalt is mostly grey/brown with exception to the high part of his body.

Oh, and my red turqs were sold as high bodys if that makes a lick of difference as to the shape.

Geez I really hope you guys are wrong about my fish =(

Im taking the pictures through a bow front aquarium which must distort somewhat!

If I can think of anymore straws to reach for ill come back and edit some more!

 

[angelmouse]

My red marlbrough coloured up at about 7-8 mths. I got my first fish at 3-4" put them in a planted tank with 2-3 weekly waterchanges, wormed them and fed my homemade beefheart (containing spirolina, garlic, letichin granuals, fish and trimed ox heart) and freeze dried brine shrimp diskusin and tetra prima(exellant for bringing out colours in red and blue fish, just don't feed it to yellow/white fish) 5x a day, within a year they were unstunted and huge and 2 years on have had no illness or loss(abit of stress when i was overstocked once).
But i have also reared fry in a barebottom on similar diet and daily waterchanges with bad results, think it was a water quality problem in early stages. It is better to chose a good quality fish about 4" as they have got over the worst of the stunting stage.
Stunted discus may not win medals at a show but the couple i have that are stunted, as adults have colouring that is just as stunning and they are only slightly smaller than my others
Your fish still have time to grow and colour up, feed them plenty.
regards Angel

 

[mike os]

BH is an excellent growth food for discus, as juveniles it probably makes up 80% of their diet in my tanks... & at least 65% for adults.

perfect discus are as rare as ... well a very rare thing.... & sell for serious money, & even then they are not "perfect".

I manage the UKDC discus show, and even fish brought over from europe & asia having won at shows like aquarama & spain have never scored 100% on judging, there is always something that could be improved.

I would upload some pics but cant be bothered with online hosting services.....

 

[rabbut]

Beefheart can lead to dietary deficiencies. If you feed it, make in homemade, as store bough stuff is almost all beefheart and no good. I will not dispute that is leads to excellent growth in young fish, but I will never feed it to mine. It is high is protien, but lacks pretty much all vitamins and contains a few antivitamins. Me an Mike were disputing whether or not it caurses fatty liver disease also, due to mamillian protien being contained in it, but we have not yet concluded that discussion, as I cannot find the paper I read a year or so back that supports my side. All I will say is that some, (myself, Diter Untergasser and others) believe that Beefheart is a poor choise of food. If I say it is (rather than I believe it is) a poor choise, I'll start an argument, but that statement should be read as such

Fish feed a staple of Beefheart in a varied diet can supposidely aderage 10 years of life. Diter Undergasser reports 35 years to be the adverage lifespan of his fish in one of my reference books, and he does not offer Beefheart to any of his fish. There is nothing else in the care of his fish that explaines the drastic lifespan difference jumping out at me when I compair his methologies with those of other keepers, other than diet. For this reason I don't offer Beefheart to my fish.

If you do feed Beefheart, make your own, and only allow it to make up 10-25% of the mix, using other foods to make up the rest. Homemade beefheart requires a fair bit of work and IMO isn't worth it.

Mine are fed Discusin dried pellet twice a day as the staple, with two to three feeds of Tropical Quintte also daily. I got good growth from most of my fish, when combined with twice weekly 50% waterchanges, but still believe at least one of my fish is stunted Untill about 4-5inches though, 50% daily waterchanges should be considered minimum.

To me, most of you fish look OK. Most have good shape for their age and also have good colour IMO. Discus don't look like discus untill the 3-4 inch mark IME. To me those fish look normal Mind all the juvinile discus under 4 inches that I've seen are poor quality when adult, so I'm not shure I'm fully qualified to make that statement... I bought mine at 4 inches for that reason...

HTH
Rabbut

 

[Sheilaf]

Don't feel bad Jim. I'm new to the discus game too. My tank is bare bottom and I've overfiltered the tank, done lots of water changes and fed a good variety. But I purchsed some that were already stunted (Didn't know what i was looking for). They are still beautiful fish and they still have loads of personallity. I think it is pretty hard to get a perfect Discus. If your Discus are happy and healthy than you must be doing something right! Mine all come flying to the front of the tank when someone walks by, begging for food, even the little runts

 

[Jim Curtis]

Well, today I took out all of the rocks and more of the substrate. I also turned up the heater to 88 from 85 and of course did my daily 50% water change and a gave the gravel a good vacuuming.

 

[Jim Curtis]

I think my Discus have parasites. What medication should I buy and is likely to be available at my LFS?

I was just researching this and my fish have most of the symptoms. I always read about white poop and my discus dont have that but they have been showing some other strange behavior lately which I just linked to parasites thanks to some sites.

 

[ReMz]

I think my Discus have parasites. What medication should I buy and is likely to be available at my LFS?

I was just researching this and my fish have most of the symptoms. I always read about white poop and my discus dont have that but they have been showing some other strange behavior lately which I just linked to parasites thanks to some sites.

I'm not sure if discus require anything special...

Standard treatment is to raise the temp to around 85 degrees and use a parasite med. There are usually a few to choose from at the LFS. I was just successful with QuICK Cure. I liked it cuz a little bit goes a long way. Downside, it stains silicone pretty badly.

edit: depends on what sort of parasite you are talking about. Are they showing signs of ich?

 

[Jim Curtis]

No itch. A bit lethargic and sometimes they go to the surface and breathe heavily. Also they dont seem to be growing properly. I keep my temp between 86 and 87 as it is.

 

[rabbut]

Sounds like flukes to me.... I'd use Flubenol, as it kills not only flukes but any protazoan and many cartesian parasite problems that could also caurse the symptoms, as well as acting to worm them Flubenol kills the eggs as well as the live parasite, so re-treating is only ever needed in very heavy infections. In the US the med can be bought off the shelf, but us UK folk need to go black-market Blooming EU regulations

I usualy surgest uping the tempearature, but that will decrease the oxygen content of the water, and if they are already gasping..... Well, for now it's not a good idea. Give the med a few hours, then up it

HTH
Rabbut

 

[mike os]

What exactly seems to be the problem?

there are more losses of discus because of people over reacting to non existent problems and/or medicating inappropriately than because of poor maintenance. Dont panic & dont try and treat a problem until a reasonable diagnosis has been made,

 

[Sheilaf]

As for not growing properly, I could be wrong but if they are already stunted (like some of mine) I don't think they will grow properly. I have 2 blue diamonds that have not grown at all in almost 4 months. They have big eyes and pinched foreheads and really poor appetites. I recently picked up 2 5 month old Red melons from local lady and the difference is amazing! They are3.5" with normal eyes and thick forheads. I wish I had known more what to look for when I originally got mine. I guess everyone makes mistakes. I'm glad I know what to look for now.

But if your guys are stunted like mine, I don't think they will ever grow properly (again, I could be wrong).

 

[rabbut]

I only recomend Flubenol because I use it routienly in QT with new fish as it is broad spectrum and easy enough on the fish and filters. It would be the best "off the shelf" wormer about, if it wern't for the EU over here. Many disucs keepers worm monthly and swear by it for good health in their fish, but I personally only do it as a one-off when the fish have gone through stress that could start a worm or fluke/protazoan issue coupled with heat treatment.

Mike makes a very good point. No fish should be medicated unless you are 100% certain on what is wrong, if anything. Idealy, get someone whom keeps discus to have a look at them for you, as some fish do have unusual habbits and moods, that can look like diease symptoms to a relatively new discus keeper. Some of these fish go into "strops" that look like the onset of a costiasis or fluke infection at times, or develop unusual swimming pattens that almost look like flashing if they get bored or flustered about something. Anything seems to trigger these strops with some specimins, with others it takes one hell of a lot. Just one of the many things that make these fish very different from one-another.

As for the gasping, are they at a filter outlet, or a still area of the tank. Thinking about it, many fish will go to the outlet, as they associate it with food, as this is where many keepers will drop the food at dinner time. Gasping in other areas can be a sign of issues though... How do the gills look? Are they flashing against objects?

The issue with "parasites" is that the types are very heavy in numbers of different types, and almost anything in an individual fishes behavior could be seen as parasites, even when none are acctually present.

Mike appears to be quite an experienced discus keeper though, so if something is wrong, chances are he's been there and do that before and will be able to help. I'm still relatively new to the discus game, and so far have only come across suspected Costiasis and confirmed Fluke infections... Confirming an exact infection will often require a microscope and skin scrape, which isn't something you want to preform without someone with experience beign arround to give guidance. Remember though, that discus naturaly carry many protozoan, cartesian and nematode parasites, so just finding them there won't nessisarily mean you have found a caurse...

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Jim Curtis]

How long have you had your Discus Rabbut? Im still not convinced mine are all stunted. They do eat very well.