Debate

[SPLiSH]

catsmakemebark, I think you are being a bit unreasonable. You cannot group all bettas in the world into one category, and say they all need 5+ gallon tanks. Maybe where you come from all bettas enjoy larger tanks; that's fine. You can keep them in large tanks.

But over here where I live, and I think this would hold true for most people on this thread, bettas have vastly different temperaments. As long as the tank and environment you provide makes the fish in question happy, what is the issue? Sure, if you have a very active, boisterous fish who looks stressed in a 2gal, maybe you should upgrade his tank. But isn't it just as cruel to keep a timid fish who hates current in a larger with water current?

Keeping pets, as you said, is a responsibility. You need to evaluate your particular betta's needs and get the tank you think would be best for it. They do have differing temperaments. You say you have had many bettas, then you would know that they are not all the same. This holds true to many animals. My two dogs are sisters, they look almost identical, but Jasmine is very energetic and bouncy whereas Phoebe likes to curl up and sleep the day away.

People, as you know, have differing personalities too. I love sport: running, surfing, you name it. I am very active. My best friend hates sport, she would rather paint her nails. We are both human, within an inch of each other in height. We are, in esscence, the same species. But we have vastly different needs. She wants to move to the city when she graduates, and become a hairdresser. For me, the city is too close and cramped. This is similar to the differences we see in bettas.

So you keep your bettas in 10 gals by all means. But me, I will keep mine in whatever keeps them happy.

 

[afireinside]

I personally think it is one gallon and up. Why? I have a miniture betta, I got him earlier this year, and I swear, he has not grown an inch! So, he liked his little one gallon. But since I was able to upgrade, I thought it would be better to put him in something slightly bigger. Two gallons. He sadly likes it less! He has to swim more to get to what he wants!

My larger bettas on the other hand like more space. But the large ones with large finage like smaller tanks, with no filter.

Seriously. You are acting as if your the only right one hear, but then you go and say it's your opinion. It depends on your betta! I nearly succesfully bred my bettas, and they were both in one gallons before that! Why did not it go sucessful? The dad ate the eggs! Otherwise I would've gotten 500+! You probably haven't been keeping bettas that long, I'm not saying I have kept them long either. I've only started a few years ago! I just have to say this. If you think a betta needs 10 gallons to himself, you would need to give an angelfish around 25 gallons just for it's self.

 

[K.J.]

33moths basically said one of the most understandable statements in this board. Yes, I would love to give every betta five or ten gallons but simply with a $20 dollar monthly allowance this can't come true. Then comes decorating....

 

[starrynightxxi]

one slim bodied fish in a 2.5 gallon tank that gets 100% water changes every week is not really in any more junk water than several slim bodied fish in a filtered ten gallon that gets 25% water changes every week. in fact the ten gallon could easily be dirtier because the substrate at the bottom, despite being vacuumed, is going to hold onto a lot of excess waste that would be completely removed by the 100% water change that could happen in a smaller unfiltered tank.

Also because of the weekly changes, the tanks aren't cycled and are not given the opportunity to do so, and unless you are overfeeding there should be nothing high enough to register in water tests, similar to a cycled tank, in one week.

minimum tank sizes are generally based on the amount of waste that a fish produces, and the level of activity, and all the bettas i've had - even those that i have kept in 10 gallon tanks - have been very low activity fish as opposed to the streamlined minnows or danios. Similarly they are small fish and do not produce as much waste and ammonia as, say, a plec or a goldfish.

Now, you keep saying the you and "a lot of other people" say that bettas should be kept in 10g+ but you aren't giving us any real proof to contradict the years of experience that many of our members have had, nor have you told us who those other people are. Until you can present these things, I'm afraid that it all boils down to opinion and nothing more.

 

[catsmakemebark]

If you think a betta needs 10 gallons to himself, you would need to give an angelfish around 25 gallons just for it's self.

Angelfish grow big and need a lot more than 25 gallons. Bad comparison.

If you want to know the people who agree with me, they are on petshub. com. If you tell them you think 1 gallon is minimum you will get yelled at....a lot. They present a lot more facts about this topic.

 

[jollysue]

Interesting.

I think some like to exchange opposing opinions. I in fact like to get in a good exchange. For myself, I can do without the emotion that comes with intolerance of differing views. Those who have trouble with the exchange of opinion won't like debate threads. Some try to win a debate by berating those who offer a different opinion. That incites flaming emotions and hurt feelings. When that happens the mod will close the thread.

One thing to consider is that Thai breeders have informed me that there are traditionaly two temperments of Betta. Thai breeders have bred their Betta as fighters and as less aggressive visual beauties. Here in the USA breeding is sometimes indescrimnant, and the fighters and more peaceful Betta have been interbred.

I am by no means an expert on Betta, although I have had up to 40 or 50 Betta in no less than 2.5 usg. I had a fin rot epidemic that I was unable to stop. I lost my sorority tank (25 or so girls) and most of my 20 or so others in individual tanks, split tanks, and community tanks. I have opinions based on my experience and what people I respect have shared with me.

Just a note on size. I have a little bird named Miss Kinky. She is small (maybe an inch.) Her spine is twisted. I had her in a filtered split 5 usg. I came home to find her stuck to the floor of the undergravel filtered tank and traumatized. I didn't know if she would recover. I ran down immediately to get her a tank that could have frequent water changes easily. She is very happy in her gal (I think) bowl. Swimming is a struggle for her. She spends most of her time on a silk plant. She really would not be happier with more room. If I had her in a five usg, she would get less water changes.

I have to get ready for work, but I'll be back. Promise and threat!

Edit: By the way beneficial bacteria live on all things in a tank: plants, substrate, tank sides, etc. So if treated or denatured (is that the right word?) water is used, bacteria will survive a complete water change. How much bacteria is needed for a small 1-2" fish?

 

[catsmakemebark]

"Just a note on size. I have a little bird named Miss Kinky. She is small (maybe an inch.) Her spine is twisted. I had her in a filtered split 5 usg. I came home to find her stuck to the floor of the undergravel tank and truamatized. I didn't know if she would recover. I ran down immediately to get her a tank that could have frequent water changes easily. She is very happy in her gal (I think) bowl. Swimming is a struggle for her. She spends most of her time on a silk plant. She really would not be happier with more room. If I had her in a five usg, she would get less water changes."


I can perfectly understand your argument in that case. I would never put a disabled fish in an aquarium where they would have a very hard time.

 

[starrynightxxi]

okay, so checking that place out, it is just another forum of opinion which differs from ours. There is no evidence there that bettas must be kept in no less than 10-20 gallons. I'm not looking for opinion, i am looking for actual fact. Show me the scientific article that proves what you say and i will consider your point, but like i said, until you have that proof, your opinion, and that of your friends, is only an opinion and those opinions aren't going to change my mind any more than my opinions will change yours.

 

[ImperfectFaerie]

I agree, I'm not seeing very many facts thrown around here. Only opinions. Which makes no ONE person right, we all do what we feel is right for my fish. Show me some scientific facts and then you'll change my mind. Until then, I'm with the majority here feeling that a 1-5gal is perfect for a betta. We have one in quarantien right now, a 10 gal, and this guy will not even go near 2/3 of the tank. He's staked out his space and that's all he wants to be in. Sidenote tho, all of our tanks have heaters/filters, I do feel that is very important.

It's only a debate if you are able to give and receive information and opinions on an even playing field. I feel like you catsmakemebark are only on the giving side and quick to jump on anyone who you judge as being wrong instead of actually listening to what they have to say.

There, I'm out, I think this thread is just going to go in circles.

 

[three-fingers]

Im quite interested in finding out why exactly this hread was even started. Does catsmakemebark simply love agruing, or think that she can actually change people opinions on how bettas can be kept?

If its the first, then thats not the point of the forums. If its the second then its a futile attempt, especially with no evidence/facts to support her views and plenty evidence/facts to support everybody elses.

the fact is a betta needs more that 5 gallon's.

No. The fact is many people keep bettas in tanks much smaller than that and they can live perfectly happy life's in such tanks. To state that as a fact without any proof is saying that the multitude of people(many with MUCH more experience than you) who say they keep bettas in much smaller tanks happily are lying.

People are very rude and do not hear out what other people have to say.

I believe that it is rude to imply that much more respected people with much more experience than you are lying .

Apparently I am not aloud to debate on other peoples forums so I am going to debate hear.

Did you ever stop to wonder why?

 

[wuvmybetta]

I think this thread is just going to go in circles.

oh no doubt about it. that's how these sorts of discussions go, there is no conclusion, no all knowing being to come along and set it straight. Overall, fishkeeping boils down to what the keeper thinks is best. I've said time and time again that there are so many fish in the world right now who don't have keepers that care enough to research and do what's right for their fish. I'm willing to bet money that somewhere there is a ten gallon with at least 4 stunted oscars in it, and an owner who wonders why their water is so brown But overall- you won't find those people posting on a tropical fish message board, because 99.9% of us actually care about the wellbeing of our fish. Despite what some may think.

 

[QuotheRaven]

I will say this debate has cleared up some questions about why betta's have small tanks so thanks to those who answered that question I have a 6 gallon tank ready for a betta that I like.

 

[dthoffsett]

If you think a betta needs 10 gallons to himself, you would need to give an angelfish around 25 gallons just for it's self.

Angelfish grow big and need a lot more than 25 gallons. Bad comparison.

Actually 25gal for a single angel fish would be plenty, they get around 6inches and a 25 gal tank measurements are 24" x 12" x 20" giving the angel fish plenty of room to swim. In fact that is a common size suggested for a breeding pair.

I personally think your statement that all breeders care about is money and not the health of the fish is completely ignorant. If that was true breeders wouldn't strive to produce quality fish, and you wouldn't be able to purchase all the fish you and your sister keep in such healthy conditions. No matter how often you change your water, or what size tank you put a fish in, if you get fish with bad genetics (which is all you would be able to get if breeders didn't care) you will have a fish that will be prone to disease and a short life.

 

[wuvmybetta]

I personally think your statement that all breeders care about is money and not the health of the fish is completely ignorant.

I meant to comment on that earlier, it's absolutely false. If anything the bettas cost me $$, not to mention at least 15 hours a week of water changes and feedings. But I do it because I love raising them, and nothing more.

 

[liz2]

I work with 5 year olds and "shush" is something I say to them when what they have been saying has been heard, and it is time to talk about something else.
Listen to me now darling SHUSH!