Day 19 Of My Fishless Cycle.

Hi,


Just completed a 90% water change. Used our subtrate 'hoover' for the first time. Gave the inside of the tank wall a good clean. Re-filled with de-clor water. Will do another API check in morning. Picking up said fish tomorrow,along with some more flake food and a bigger/better temp gauge. Have re-set the thermo to give a water temp of around 25 degrees.

This all sounds very good - a word of warning - you need to keep up diligently with the gravel vacs, especially with an undergravel filter. Undergravel filters lose their effectiveness if too much detritus is allowed to build up on the substrate. The gravel can become clogged, and that just doesn't work = you will end up with ammonia/nitrite spikes, because you have both excess waste creating extra ammonia as well as insufficient flow through the filter to allow the bacteria in the gravel to actually be able to deal with the ammonia that is present.

Have you looked into running the UGF as a REVERSE undergravel filter? It definitely is worth a read. A RUGF can actually be better than a regular UGF, because it won't clog up as easily. Is the UGF air driven or driven by powerheads? If driven by powerheads (which I would recommend) it's actually pretty easy to reverse the flow of water as well as to add a sponge filter to the powerhead to capture particles in the water, before it reaches the gravel.

You mentioned a fish called a 'Sterbias Cory' ? Just google it,will they be OK with an undergravel filter system ?

Yes, I did mention the sterbai's cory. I didn't realize that you had a UGF. I would not have recommended any cory with a gravel substrate, especially one with an undergravel substrate. Sorry. The reason is that the gravel can cut up (or wear down) their barbels. These wounds can then be infected by a build-up of decaying material in the gravel. Some people have had success with cories in this scenario, but I think that they are a minority. Most people, especially new folks, will struggle with cories in this type of set-up. In general, cories prefer a much finer substrate, such as sand. They pull the sand into their mouths and work it through their gills... they are constantly digging around the substrate like that. It is very cool to watch, but unfortunately, it isn't something that you can see with gravel.


Also,we talked about Barbs,in particular 5 Banded types which dont 'nip' and are more placid and community friendly ? Having problems finding a LFS who stocks them to date, but will keep looking.

Yes, unfortunately, five banded barbs are harder to find than tiger barbs. Tigers are a much more easily found fish, but can be quite nippy, unless kept in very high numbers (12 or more). But 12 Tigers (which are fairly stocky fish) would take up well over 2/3 of the available stocking space in your tank. They are very cool fish, but at 3 inches long and a very thick body, they are a fairly large bioload per fish, as compared to five banded or other barbs.

Another barb that would work in a community set-up like you are planning is a cherry barb (not rosy barb). The cherry males are a bright red, especially if you have multiple males and females. The males will compete for the attention of the females and be far more brilliantly colored. The females are an orangy color.


Talking of food,is flake sufficent for said fish,or do I need another additive/option like bloodworm ect.. ?

Yes, flake food (or pellets) are a great staple food for the fish. This should be the primary food for the fish. You can offer a variety of foods, such as frozen bloodworms, daphnia, etc. I feed my fish frozen bloodworms (defrosted before hand in a small amount of tank water - takes about 5 minutes) once a week, after the weekly water change. Then, I fast the fish for the next day. The other five days, my fish get tropical fish flake food. Whatever they can eat in about 3 minutes (plus I drop in some shrimp pellets or algae wafers for my cories) before bed - they get more of the food after dark.

Kids all wanted different fish (nighmare),but they (and me)now realise some fish simply just dont get on. Will be keeping an eye on events over next few weeks as fish are gradually introduced,will also do regular small water changes and check filter pads weekly.

This is good. You shouldn't need to do the small water changes. You should be able to just start with your standard weekly maintenance routine. Doing two changes a week of smaller volume is fine, as is doing a 30-50% weekly water change. I normally do a 30% water change weekly, and a larger one once a month.

Have I missed anything ?

John.

If you plan to go to live plants in the future, you will want to change your filter. Plants can struggle with a UGF. You may want to consider an external filter, if you decide to add plants. (Having the powerheads will be helpful for a planted set-up, as one of the biggest problems with plants can be circulation. Adding powerheads is a great remedy (or preventative method) for many types of algae. (And while changing the substrate, you will have to remember that your gravel is currently your biological media, so you'd
need to either run the filters in parallel for a while, plus maybe adding some to the external filter to help to seed it with the proper bacteria.)

And if you so choose to do that, putting sand in as the substrate would enable cories to thrive. Sand is actually much cheaper than gravel. A 50lb bag of play sand, properly cleaned, can be a great substrate for all fish, but especially cories.



Best wishes with your new fishies!
 
Hi,


Like I said before,not only do I have an internal Jewel bio filter system (which comes with moast Jewel tanks), as a back up,my LFS fitted me with a UGF with what I pressume are 2 powerheads ? When I say powerheads (UGF),my set up basically comes with two 12" long plastic tubes attached to the plastic framework (burried in the bottom of the tank), with each 12" tube having another tube inside blowing air from the bottom of the tube to the top,are these power heads ? The Jewel bio filter system (which came with the tank)houses the sponge where again,I asume most of my good bacteria has now gathered ?


All very confusing,but in short I have 2 filter systems.


John.
 
The bacterial colonies of your tank are probably split between the filters (meaning a sizable portion are also found in the gravel itself).


A powerhead blows water, not air through the tubes. What you have is an air pump (or two) driven UGF. To increase the circulation with an UGF, some folks attach powerheads (a water pump, basically) into the op of the tubes you are describing to cause more water to flow through. With a reverse UGF, the powerheads are turned the opposite way, to blow water from the top under the plates, and force water through the gravel from bottom to top (this helps to keep detritus from building up on the bottom.


Having a second filter running with a UGF is a good thing. If you ever decide to remove the UGF, you will not have as big a concern about a mini-cycle if/when you make a change.


This is a powerhead (this is submerged below the water to move the water):
au_th_120090_FS32624-i.jpg

th_12790_19671V.jpg



These are air pumps (this is kept outside the tank, with an airline going from the pump into the tank, usually attached to an airstone, etc.):
p_150097_34590_air_pump.jpg

p_rd_21380_19723DZ.jpg
 
Hi,

Going by those diagrams,it looks like you are spot on. I have an electric external air pump, driving 2 plastic nozzles connected two the subtrate via a plastic maze sat on the bottom of the tank. My local fish aquatic centre uses this system in ALL its tanks btw. He swears by it,I hardly knew any different and to be honest trust the man because never at any time as he pressured me into buying fish early or, ditching the fishless cycle using ammonia.


All suggestions and info appreciated btw.


John.
 
UGF's can be good, and at one time they were state of the art. A fishkeeper who got into the hobby back when they were the best there was probably sees no need to change. I will say that they are not well-suited for cories. Being a corydoras lover myself, I cannot have an UGF for myself. I am not saying that they are bad, but they don't work for me. Cories need sand to be as healthy as possible, and since sand isn't a possibility with a UGF... well you know.


I am not advising against a UGF, they can be good. I am merely pointing out that they don't work with cories. (I think you understand that by now. :lol:) So, I wanted to be sure to rescind my previous recommendation, and explain why.
 
Hi,

No problem at all.

The way I see it,we still have the option of a sandy subtrate,and if we do decide to change, I will ask how to go about it without stressing the fish. Corys are now off the list of course,bit of a shame because they do look good,but we will no doubt have other options,perhaps you could suggest one ? On a brighter note,today we get our first fish,12 fish in all, made up of 8 Tuxedo Guppys and 4 Micky mouse platys. Tank looks good,seems strange not having to put ammonia in anymore,but looking forwards to actually getting some fish into the tank now.



John.
 
Hi,


Well,the fish have settled in nicely so far. Kids have now added some Swordfish and some Clown loach and also a couple of Gourami types which seem to want a lot more peace and quite than say the Guppies, and the Gourami dont seem to like the light on at night,is this normal ? Other than that our list is the following :

Tank size : 175 litre.

5 Tuxedo Guppys.
3 Giant Tuxedo guppys.
5 Mick mouse Plattys.
8 Neon Tetra.
3 Clown loaches
5 Swordtails
2 Honey Gourami




Thoughts ?



John.
 

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