Cycling New Tank With Mature Media Donation

[karin]

Hi.

So I'm getting ready to cycle a new 60 gallon tank. I just have to pick the substrate and then I'm ready to go. (Substrate choices ugh)
Just wanted to see if I have the protocol correct.

I'm going to:
Fill tank with water
Add ammonia to bring it to 4 ppm or (if I can't find ammonia) I'm going to add fish food
I'm going to take mature media from my other tank/filter, a 2x 5 inch sponge, 1/2 the filter floss and some of the ceramic rings, and add that to my new Eheim 2215 canister filter. Turn on.
I'm going to test ammonia twice daily to see if it is dropping... when it does I'll add more ammonia to 4 ppm. Then I basically follow directions for a fishless cycle.

Question. If I can't find ammonia... how much food to start and how long after adding food do I start up the filter with mature media?

I should also add that I will test my other tank daily to make certain the raid on media doesn't cause a minicycle.

Anything I'm missing?

Oh and what can I expect in terms of time? Should I be able to shorten the cycle to one week, two? More?

 

[fatheadminnow]

Make sure you add a water conditioner.

Just test once a day for now. When ammonia is at 0 ppm at 24 hours, then start to test twice a day.

The fish food; you are going to need to test that out for your self.

-FHM

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Karin,

In reading your post I found myself realizing that you've planned quite carefully and have already put a good deal of work into finding good individual pieces of equipment. Thus, it would be unfortunate to be subjected to the difficulties and lack of control over the cycle that come from trying to nurse an organic source like fishfood or shrimp into becoming ammonia and eventually driving the cycling.

I would place more importance on the adventure of actually -finding- the simple, pure, household ammonia. I see you're in CA? In the midwest and on the east coast OM47 and I have noticed that a couple of the big hardware store chains, Ace Hardware (and I say a couple because I feel I remember another chain or another name this same chain goes by?) [ok, I searched around and it was "True Value" hardware stores I was thinking of. Also there is "Do it Best." I think Ace is the one we've definately both found the right ammonia in, right OM47? (I'm 99% sure it was an Ace I confirmed some in the other day) and I'm less sure about True Value and even less sure about DoItBest - so would be really nice if other members could try and check in these and report!]

As you probably already know, the stuff we're talking about is the ammonia (ammonia is a gas in its natural state) dissolved in pure water until it reaches typically a 9.5% (although the 9.5% is much more common in the UK apparently because of rules that keep it below 10% and require that the percentage be marked whereas in the US it varies more wildly and the percentage does not need to be marked.) Its clear and acts like water. Its sold assuming you are trying to find a cheap alternative to the commercial cleaners for floors and other household things.

Its important to check that whatever household ammonia you are about to buy doesn't have fragrances, dyes, surfactants or soaps mixed in with it. In the US at least, this can be difficult to determine so you usually just have to go on observational hunches. If you can see in to it, you should shake it and determine that it doesn't foam. Instead it should just bubble for 2 or 3 seconds like water.

The beauty of using ammonia is that after a few tests you will know fairly exactly how much (in milliliters using a marked syringe (or, less conveniently, an unmarked dropper for squirts or counted drops, or a teaspoon I suppose)) it takes to bring your own particular tank up to the correct concentration. With organics a beginner has virtually no idea and has to just guess and then it can take many days to get any idea of what happened, what concentration of ammonia was acheived (often just giving up and simply hoping.)

At any rate, regardless of which ammonia source you use its better to get the filter running and have figured out how to stabilized a correct ammonia level -before- you add your precious mature media (this sentence was the whole point I was trying to make with all these paragraphs, lol.) OK, gotta run, hope you could make some sense out of all that?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[fatheadminnow]

Yup, I too can vouch for Ace Hardware, as this is where I picked up my bottle of ammonia.

If you want, karin, I can mail a bottle of ammonia too you if you want to pay for shipping? They only cost about 2 bucks at the store, so no loss to me. lol You would get it in about 4-5 days.

-FHM

 

[waterdrop]

Yup, I too can vouch for Ace Hardware, as this is where I picked up my bottle of ammonia.

If you want, karin, I can mail a bottle of ammonia too you if you want to pay for shipping? They only cost about 2 bucks at the store, so no loss to me. lol You would get it in about 4-5 days.

-FHM

Is it not a controlled substance when it comes to shipping?
Edit: I did a search and found a couple of govermental lists and it didn't seem to be on it, but of course I hardly know what I'm doing, lol! WD

 

[fatheadminnow]

Yup, I too can vouch for Ace Hardware, as this is where I picked up my bottle of ammonia.

If you want, karin, I can mail a bottle of ammonia too you if you want to pay for shipping? They only cost about 2 bucks at the store, so no loss to me. lol You would get it in about 4-5 days.

-FHM

Is it not a controlled substance when it comes to shipping?
Edit: I did a search and found a couple of govermental lists and it didn't seem to be on it, but of course I hardly know what I'm doing, lol! WD

I have absolutely no idea? I would assume that since it can be bought in local stores, then it should be okay to ship?

-FHM

 

[OldMan47]

It is quite hazardous if you get a leak so I would not be surprised if there were shipping restrictions. I must assume that the person who delivers ammonium hydroxide solution to the store has the needed permits to move it in bulk. I know that the bottle that mine came in is not tight and will leak if the bottle is not kept upright. I cannot imagine the shipping companies being willing to move that bottle around with the constant threat of releasing the chemical to the drivers and stock handling people. It is definitely a toxic chemical with serious safety issues unless it is handled properly.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Yeah, I would have to look into it. But since you really don't need that much ammonia to cycle a tank, I could out some in a smaller, sealed bottle.

-FHM

 

[karin]

Thanks so much for the offer FHM. Very kind. I will go on the ammonia hunt this weekend. We have the Ace and True Values around here and bigger stuff in Reno NV, the closest big city, so let me first try. Thanks again for your kindness.

Karin

 

[fatheadminnow]

Your welcome! Let us know if you find some!

-FHM

 

[waterdrop]

FHM, the last time I ordered some aquarium things that came in bottles I noticed that they used clear box packing tape to seal and hold down the bottle caps on each individual bottle, presumably after tightening the cap -- in case that helps --WD

 

[Floyds mum]

Hi.

So I'm getting ready to cycle a new 60 gallon tank. I just have to pick the substrate and then I'm ready to go. (Substrate choices ugh)
Just wanted to see if I have the protocol correct.

I'm going to:
Fill tank with water
Add ammonia to bring it to 4 ppm or (if I can't find ammonia) I'm going to add fish food
I'm going to take mature media from my other tank/filter, a 2x 5 inch sponge, 1/2 the filter floss and some of the ceramic rings, and add that to my new Eheim 2215 canister filter. Turn on.
I'm going to test ammonia twice daily to see if it is dropping... when it does I'll add more ammonia to 4 ppm. Then I basically follow directions for a fishless cycle.

Question. If I can't find ammonia... how much food to start and how long after adding food do I start up the filter with mature media?

I should also add that I will test my other tank daily to make certain the raid on media doesn't cause a minicycle.

Anything I'm missing?

Oh and what can I expect in terms of time? Should I be able to shorten the cycle to one week, two? More?

You say you have mature media? well you dont need ammonia then, you just put the mature media in your new filter (rinse it in tank water) and add the fish. At least thats what ive been told to do.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi.

So I'm getting ready to cycle a new 60 gallon tank. I just have to pick the substrate and then I'm ready to go. (Substrate choices ugh)
Just wanted to see if I have the protocol correct.

I'm going to:
Fill tank with water
Add ammonia to bring it to 4 ppm or (if I can't find ammonia) I'm going to add fish food
I'm going to take mature media from my other tank/filter, a 2x 5 inch sponge, 1/2 the filter floss and some of the ceramic rings, and add that to my new Eheim 2215 canister filter. Turn on.
I'm going to test ammonia twice daily to see if it is dropping... when it does I'll add more ammonia to 4 ppm. Then I basically follow directions for a fishless cycle.

Question. If I can't find ammonia... how much food to start and how long after adding food do I start up the filter with mature media?

I should also add that I will test my other tank daily to make certain the raid on media doesn't cause a minicycle.

Anything I'm missing?

Oh and what can I expect in terms of time? Should I be able to shorten the cycle to one week, two? More?

You say you have mature media? well you dont need ammonia then, you just put the mature media in your new filter (rinse it in tank water) and add the fish. At least thats what ive been told to do.

If you are lucky and the mature media "takes" in its new environment and "takes" at a full colony size matching the bioload then this would be ok, but how are you going to know if it took without exposing the fish? If you have nice old mature media and in good quantity then its a very reliable thing, but its good to be aware that moved colonies can sometimes collapse and not do their job.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[fatheadminnow]

FHM, the last time I ordered some aquarium things that came in bottles I noticed that they used clear box packing tape to seal and hold down the bottle caps on each individual bottle, presumably after tightening the cap -- in case that helps --WD

Thanks, WD!

-FHM

 

[karin]

Just to clarify. What I'm hoping for is that when I move the mature media, they will be like "cool, new digs, bigger filter, lets reproduce!" and I would see the ammonia in the tank come down and the cycle would have this jump start. The little partying bacteria would reproduce and soon I would have enough to process the ammonia in the tank. I'll know it if the stats show it. There has to be some time for reproduction to process ammonia in a bigger tank.

So that is the best case scenario. What you are saying is that the worst case, is that the bacteria collapse, like they all die, and I am just starting at zero with the fishless cycle.

Of course I want option one. No one has answered my question about how long this might take, presumably because who knows what these bacteria will do. If it is option one, I'm an optimist, should I expect the cycle to take a week?

Anyway, I need to stop talking and get this thing done, I know!