Cycle Question?

[Katch]

Katch wrote:
"Remember Nitrite cannot process at all whilst ammonia is present. So as we cycle a tank the ammonia has to process to zero before the nitrite starts to move."

I don't believe this is correct. The Nitrospira spp. should be perfectly capable of processing nitrite into nitrate despite the presence of ammonia. The Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira are each independently "doing their own thing" on a continuous basis.

If you have an information source and I'm missing something please let me know.

~~waterdrop~~

http/puffernet.tripod.com/nitrogencycle.html

There is a problem with the above simplistic view, Mother Nature has thrown a curve into the
straightforward Nitrogen Cycle reviewed above. The bacteria that reduces nitrite to nitrate,
nitrobacter is inhibited by a free concentration of ammonia in the water.

http/www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V5N-48SPCCK-2&_user=10&_coverDate=01%2F31%2F2004&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1468969148&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=7311dbe0e744ab75c7a4bf8beec132e8&searchtype=a

Edit - Ah I'm misreading the research - growth is inhibited in the presence of ammonia but conversion should still occur.

 

[electropunk06]

after 12 hours
ammonia 0ppm
nitrite 5+ppm
temp is up to 26 now.

 

[Katch]

I think WD is right in thinking you are in the Nitrite spike phase.

 

[electropunk06]

my nitrite is nearly at zero after 12 hours but now my ammonia is slowing down, is this normal?
thanks

 

[electropunk06]

my amonia has now stopped going down at all,
ammonia 3ppm
nitrite 0.25ppm
ph 8.8+ (defenatly to high but does this affect the cycle?)

how can i lower the ph?

 

[curlyriff]

Yeah PH higher than 8.4 has been known to slow the cycle down I believe from what I have read. Just do a large water change if your tap water has lower PH. This is the simplest and easiest way to maintain PH levels.

Everything else looks fine from what you have given. You should see both the Ammonia & Nitrite drop to 0.0ppm within 12 hours.

Kind Regards,

Adam

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, agree with Adam's advice. The optimal growth speed curve is a presumed to be a fairly regular hill-shaped curve (if you draw a graph where pH is on the horizontal axis and speed of bacterial growth is the vertical) with 8.0 to 8.4 being the smooth curve at the very top of the mountain and representing the optimal growth rate as it pertains to pH. Presumably at pH=8.8 the speed of beneficial bacterial growth shouldn't slow down too much from optimal, and yet we also have to think about whether the API high pH test is really giving us an accurate number when it says 8.8, since that's getting pretty high for the range of that test perhaps. So it could be that the pH is really a lot higher than 8.8 and that is why the rate of ammonia reduction has slowed or stopped.

I agree that a water change is of course the action to take.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[electropunk06]

Hi fishless cycle i now complete (with help from some mature filter media and fish are in the tank doing well, im keeping an eye on the ammonia and nitrite all doing well. the ph was up very high again today but after a 25% water change its back to 7.4, am i right to think bog wood will keep this low?
thanks for all the help
Lloyd

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, the tannins that come out of woods like the bogwood types will lower the pH. That does not mean they will lower the hardness of the water though and if your high pH is caused by lots of minerals in the water (hardness is a measure of those mineral levels) it may still be good to understand that and the implications for which fish will thrive in your water and which will not. WD