Cyanobacteria Questions & White Spores

[mark4785]

Hmmm, it looks like we are running out of options here. At least I am afraid I do not have other suggestions. I read in one article that somebody had been doing cleaning and water changes during several months before they got rid of it. They blamed it on the nitrates, but again, we have already looked into that.

Low nitrate may cause it but highering the nitrate level while cyanobacteria is present is not enough to get rid of it by the looks of it. Nor is increasing flow. I guess I just need to keep taking drastic action by physically removing it and eventually installing a UV-C. Cyanobacteria seems to adapt to most any conditions once it's been triggered.

 

[shasm]

I don't know much of anything about it but I found this from someone who went though it, I don't know if this will help or not. Hang in there.




) How to rid your freshwater aquarium of cyanobacteria:
I KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT SALTWATER AQUARIUMS, SO THE PROCESS YOU USE MIGHT BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
Start with water changes, they are the best way to rid your tank of cyanobacteria. Don't clean filters, they contain the good bacteria as well as the bad. If you do weekly water changes, you will lower the nitrate levels in your tank, which is good for your tank anyway. Also, make sure you clean the tank thoroughly including, decorations, fake plants and gravel. If you have real plants, try to clean them with a gravel vac or maybe even use a turkey baster, (try and suck the cyanobacteria off of them.) Do this every time you do water changes. The most common thoughts on this is to do a fifty percent water change then do a twenty five percent water change, then to do ten to twenty percent water change. Until your nitrate levels are at or near zero. You may need to do more than weekly water changes to get your tanks nitrate levels to zero. If the bacteria infestation still persists. Feed the fish less, they won't starve if you limit the feeding, just watch them carefully and make sure they are still healthy. Cyanobacteria does not seem to effect fish in the early stages, you might not even notice any problems at all. Continue to do your water changes. Also limit the light your tank gets. Cyanobacteria need light to survive, so by limiting the light your tank gets, you cut down the energy the cyanobacteria need to survive. Still do the water changes and keep the nitrates at or near zero. You might even put light on a timer to regulate the light more effectively. You can use the black out method to get rid of cyanobacteria, but this method is not the safest way to get rid of cyanobacteria. As the cyanobacteria dies, it lands on substrate and is absorbed by the water column. If not filtered and cleaned properly, it will cause your tank to foul even more when you quit the blackout. If you haven't filtered and cleaned enough, the cyanobacteria will return with a vengeance. Next, make sure your phosphate levels are within normal (which they should be if you are doing your water changes). Co2 and oxygen play a part in the life cycle of cyanobacteria. Make sure that you have good co2 levels and that there is plenty of oxygen in your tank. Add air stones if you don't have them and make sure you have good filtration. So what else can you do to rid tank? If you do water changes, limit light, don't over feed, make sure phosphates levels are good, the co2 and oxygen are good, and still the cyanobacteria thrives. You can use fish medication like Maredl Maracyn or your favorite type as long as it contains Erythromycin. Use as directed, don't overdose!! Medication also has draw backs. The bacteria can develop a resistance to the medication, so be careful when using. Also, medication may kill good bacteria. So you have to watch your tank very carefully. Test frequently to assure that your tank is healthy.

I found this information to late for my plants. I removed them from my tank and replaced them with fake plants. Cleaned all decorations and changed fifty percent of the water, then added the Erythromycin for five days doing water changes every other day. After two days the cyanobacteria started to fade away. After five days all signs were gone. I tested the water conditions at five days and found that the nitrates were high. I assume that the bacteria was masking the real nitrate levels to look lower than they actually were, did water changes till the nitrate levels were at normal levels. I also started to feed less food, and cut back the lighting two hours a day. It's been two weeks now and the tank looks great. The fish are healthy and active, and I feel much better that I may have found the cause for the problem. Time will tell.

Conclusion:
I searched many websites and found many different opinions, on how to best rid aquariums of cyanobacteria. Not all websites had the same views on the process, or evan on the best way to start. The general idea was the same. I hope that this information may be of use to others. Sorry I have no pictures of my tank with cyanobacteria. I didn't want to use a picture from another site, without permission. You can find good pictures by searching images, in your web browser.


Read more: http/www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/member-submitted-articles/cyanobacteria-23633/#ixzz17IKdx9cX

 

[coldcazzie]

I don't know if this will help Mark, but have you tried a longer blackout? Three days did nothing for me, but 6 seemed to do the job. Maybe the thing to try now is a large water change, then a 5-6 day blackout and large water change again at the end and dose as normal. Then give it 24 to 48 hours to assess the situation, and if it seems to be returning do another 5-6 day blackout, and see what the effect is.

 

[ian]

as i have commented previously, in Cazzies thread regarding the matter, this was a few months ago. I have only known a couple of people experienced this, the first used a chemical method (which i'm not for), the second who is an established aquascaper, he's scaped for JBL and others, suffered this at the lfs he works at, he'd scaped the tank (it looked amazing!) and one of the stores newbs left the lights on for 2 days running. The tank was covered! He tried everything, and IMO this kind of bacteria/algae/whatever it wants to be known as was only cured by a good clean, a UV and a 5 day blackout. Now i have mentioned this before in Cazzies thread, but i think its now time to employ the big guns and go from there. You have got the info you need to change your routine, when you start the tank back up. Good luck Mark.

 

[SuperColey1]

It must be something in the tank that is raising the Ph and I assume KH.

The KH level has been between 4-5 dKH over the last 6 months so thats pretty constant. I'd expect to see a KH of 9-10 if there was something in there that raises total alkalinity.

The PH really isn't an issue, especially if it's not bringing about cyanobacteria, which is the real issue. The important thing to remember is the PH stays between 7.2 and 7.4 while I have the c02 system running and the PH hasn't risen to 8.2 in over 2 months.

Thats an assumption Mark. If you have a problem with something (Cyanobacteria) and routes other have success with do not work then we look for something different in your tank from others.

Remember Ph is not linked directly to KH and Ph can drop fall while KH stays the same.

However like I have said before I cannot see any reason in a tank for Ph to rise in the tank when you are doing water changes weekly (or more.)

In a non CO2/no water change tank then it will and so will the KH because the plants will start to use the carbonates as a carbon source as they are CO2 limited however in a water changed tank then I can't see the problem.

We are running through a process of elimination. Flow is sorted, nutrients are sorted (and don't be tempted to try to remove phosphates nor anything else) and this issue only showed up (in the threads I have read) in the past 2 pages.

I can only assume that something in the tank is causing the rise and I cannot state for sure it is a possible reason for the Cyano to cling on like it is doing however it may be a help to it. Even if not it is something that needs sorting as it shouldn't be happening.

On the phosphates you are more likely (may not be but my water would be) increasing phosphates with water changes and not diluting them.

When we add phosphates at EI level we are adding circa 2ppm+. If you were going the TPN+ route would be nearer 0.5 or less unless dosing at EI levels. My water report states my tap has 0.6ppm!!!

I just say this to correct the assumption that water changes are reducing phosphates. Your tap may well be 0 but I doubt it.

That isn't a problem though. That is 10-20 year old thinking and a false correlation. YES the algaes do 'feed' of nutrients. Not excess nutrients. Any nutrients. However so do plants so to rid the food source from one removes the plant source for all. There is unfortunately no way of removing 'excess' and have plants at the same time. 'higher' plants need more nutrient than algaes etc and it would mean having your own laboratory and testing daily the levels remaining. Maybe drip feeding through the day to maintain only the amount currently being used which of course would go up and down with plant mass as it grows, is pruned etc.

The fact that many of the older planted tank 'experts' have healthy tanks yet state phosphates are the cause of algae is a problem. The other fact that many use phospate resins to remove the phosphate yet still have healthy tanks shows how much worth these resins have. After all if they were removing the phosphate to the degree the user anticipates then theplants would starve before the algae they assume feeds off phosphates.

What they need to see is how light plays such a part. These long time experts (going back to the 60s etc are using much much much lower light. The older ones were using incandescent in those early days and have carried their routines and beliefs on when they went onto flourescent. They still use low lighting though.

So they see much less problems than the higher light used these days.

By that I mean even T12s these days are far superior than back in the seventies. Technology advances and that means advances in existing technology as well as new technology.

We already know and have said you have a lot of light with those T5HOs. This isn't a cause for the problems in that you cannot have highlight however it speeds things up. Whilst there are problems they will race away until you get on top of them.

One solution as may have been said before is to get some sort of floating plant. The reason for this is often falsely as 'removing nutrient' however the actual reason for it's benefit is that it blocks light. It reduces the growing (and problem) speed below by reducing the light available. It also adds to the plantmass. When we say a havily planted tank is 75% of the substrate that is a guideline to gauge plantmass. There doesn't actually need to be anything in the substrate. It could all be rhixomes attached to hardscape and floating plants with nothing in the water. Like Ripariums which have the pots submerged in the water at the top with the plants growing emersed while down below is minimal or zero plantmass in the substrate or at substrate level.

I really do think the Ph rise needs sorting out though. This could well be what is causing some problems in there.

AC

 

[stevereade]

AC, you must have sore fingers lol.

 

[SuperColey1]

I've got speech recognition software Thats why it comes out in a pigeon English.

Just kidding I am a fast typer. I tend to have posts like these open with 20 other tabs and type each reply over the space of an hour or 2. Sometimes pulling up several other references while I type the reply

AC

 

[stevereade]

Andy I would so loose my chain of thought doing that lol, can't say I blame ya with replies that long tho.

Enough off topic stuff from me anyway

 

[mark4785]

I really do think the Ph rise needs sorting out though. This could well be what is causing some problems in there.

I would sort it out if I could prove something is in need of being sorted out, and knowing what needs to be changed to sort it.. I hope that neatly sums up why I will probably never get to grips with what is raising the PH as I've outlined whats in the tank and the fact that it's contents do not induce alkalinity. I think you must be implying that the manufacturers of the substrate are not being honest with me as that is the only thing within the tank that I've felt would raise the PH. As you know, the manufacturers confirmed to me that it was 'PH neutral' and I conducted an amateur experimental test back in August whereby I placed tank water in a 100ml beaker and also placed tank water in another 100ml beaker containing a small amount of the Caribsea substrate. I swirled both 4 times a day for 3 days and the PH fluctuations matched; on day 3 the PH of the water in both beakers had risen to 8.4 from 7.4.

I would like to pinpoint what is raising the PH but I'm not sure I have the theories and the tools to begin understanding why it has risen.

When we add phosphates at EI level we are adding circa 2ppm+. If you were going the TPN+ route would be nearer 0.5 or less unless dosing at EI levels. My water report states my tap has 0.6ppm!!!

What does 'adding circa' mean and what does 'EI level(s)' mean?
My phosphate test kit indicates 0 ppm of phosphate in the tap water but I was using a quite unreliable test kit by NTlabs. NTlab water test results are always different to API's water test results and I know which brand I'd use to get an understanding of what is in the tank water. Maybe I should contact the water board but whats to stop them from using a similar test kit to me lol?

One solution as may have been said before is to get some sort of floating plant.

I do like the idea of a floating plant. Sadly, I only have duckweed which could easily get into the filter and I may have to remove most of my substrate-based plants (especially egeria densa) as they need full/high light levels to thrive.

What floating plant would you recommend?

I don't know much of anything about it but I found this from someone who went though it, I don't know if this will help or not. Hang in there.




) How to rid your freshwater aquarium of cyanobacteria:
I KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT SALTWATER AQUARIUMS, SO THE PROCESS YOU USE MIGHT BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
Start with water changes, they are the best way to rid your tank of cyanobacteria. Don't clean filters, they contain the good bacteria as well as the bad. If you do weekly water changes, you will lower the nitrate levels in your tank, which is good for your tank anyway. Also, make sure you clean the tank thoroughly including, decorations, fake plants and gravel. If you have real plants, try to clean them with a gravel vac or maybe even use a turkey baster, (try and suck the cyanobacteria off of them.) Do this every time you do water changes. The most common thoughts on this is to do a fifty percent water change then do a twenty five percent water change, then to do ten to twenty percent water change. Until your nitrate levels are at or near zero. You may need to do more than weekly water changes to get your tanks nitrate levels to zero. If the bacteria infestation still persists. Feed the fish less, they won't starve if you limit the feeding, just watch them carefully and make sure they are still healthy. Cyanobacteria does not seem to effect fish in the early stages, you might not even notice any problems at all. Continue to do your water changes. Also limit the light your tank gets. Cyanobacteria need light to survive, so by limiting the light your tank gets, you cut down the energy the cyanobacteria need to survive. Still do the water changes and keep the nitrates at or near zero. You might even put light on a timer to regulate the light more effectively. You can use the black out method to get rid of cyanobacteria, but this method is not the safest way to get rid of cyanobacteria. As the cyanobacteria dies, it lands on substrate and is absorbed by the water column. If not filtered and cleaned properly, it will cause your tank to foul even more when you quit the blackout. If you haven't filtered and cleaned enough, the cyanobacteria will return with a vengeance. Next, make sure your phosphate levels are within normal (which they should be if you are doing your water changes). Co2 and oxygen play a part in the life cycle of cyanobacteria. Make sure that you have good co2 levels and that there is plenty of oxygen in your tank. Add air stones if you don't have them and make sure you have good filtration. So what else can you do to rid tank? If you do water changes, limit light, don't over feed, make sure phosphates levels are good, the co2 and oxygen are good, and still the cyanobacteria thrives. You can use fish medication like Maredl Maracyn or your favorite type as long as it contains Erythromycin. Use as directed, don't overdose!! Medication also has draw backs. The bacteria can develop a resistance to the medication, so be careful when using. Also, medication may kill good bacteria. So you have to watch your tank very carefully. Test frequently to assure that your tank is healthy.

I found this information to late for my plants. I removed them from my tank and replaced them with fake plants. Cleaned all decorations and changed fifty percent of the water, then added the Erythromycin for five days doing water changes every other day. After two days the cyanobacteria started to fade away. After five days all signs were gone. I tested the water conditions at five days and found that the nitrates were high. I assume that the bacteria was masking the real nitrate levels to look lower than they actually were, did water changes till the nitrate levels were at normal levels. I also started to feed less food, and cut back the lighting two hours a day. It's been two weeks now and the tank looks great. The fish are healthy and active, and I feel much better that I may have found the cause for the problem. Time will tell.

Conclusion:
I searched many websites and found many different opinions, on how to best rid aquariums of cyanobacteria. Not all websites had the same views on the process, or evan on the best way to start. The general idea was the same. I hope that this information may be of use to others. Sorry I have no pictures of my tank with cyanobacteria. I didn't want to use a picture from another site, without permission. You can find good pictures by searching images, in your web browser.


Read more: http/www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/member-submitted-articles/cyanobacteria-23633/#ixzz17IKdx9cX

It's a good explanation but I can't lower phosphates and nitrates in a planted aquarium. I'm confident cyanobacteria would go if I installed media that absorbed phosphates, nitrate and ammonium on top of thorough cleaning and water changes every 2 days. It's not easy to do this when working around plants though; they need their nutrients, W/C disturb their branches etc. As for the anti-bacterial method of removing cyanobacteria, I won't be adding medication as it's counter-productive towards the filtration bacteria. A UV-C light as mild anti-bacterial properties but no side effects on the filter bacteria.

I don't know if this will help Mark, but have you tried a longer blackout? Three days did nothing for me, but 6 seemed to do the job. Maybe the thing to try now is a large water change, then a 5-6 day blackout and large water change again at the end and dose as normal. Then give it 24 to 48 hours to assess the situation, and if it seems to be returning do another 5-6 day blackout, and see what the effect is.

Thanks for this advice. I was a bit hesitant to do longer blackouts.

I will try a longer blackout with a UV-C & filter running as soon as I get college essays out of the way.


Mark.

 

[mark4785]

Posted by mistake..

 

[mbsqw1d]

I do like the idea of a floating plant. Sadly, I only have duckweed which could easily get into the filter and I may have to remove most of my substrate-based plants (especially egeria densa) as they need full/high light levels to thrive.

What floating plant would you recommend?

Your Egeria Densa can be used as a floating plant, it will still grow!

 

[SuperColey1]

The test you did seems to clear up any blame for the substrate. There was a bad batch of Eco Complete (Caribsea) which was raising Ph and KH as well as leeching white stuff into the water however yours is not Eco-complete.

I'm still not finished with the substrate though. Is there a reason you used the Instant sand? From reading the blurb it doesn't seem very good for planted tanks:

The Instant Aquarium? line offers a variety of natural gravels and sands water packed with living, water-purifying bacteria, state of the art clarifier, and a complete water conditioner. Tap water is all you need to get started. Instant Aquarium? immediately begins the cycling process, eliminating new tank syndrome, and discouraging nuisance algaes. Instant Aquarium? detoxifies metals, eliminates ammonia, neutralizes chlorine and chloramines, and provides a protective slime coat for stressed fish. Instant Aquarium? also reduces nitrates and nitrites. Starting a new aquarium has never been easier.

From the above it seems to suggest that it is a state of the art clarifier. That part doesn't seem to be working.

It also says it detoxifies metals (traces/micros) and eliminates ammonia. From that statement it is removing the traces and if it eliminates ammonia I'm not understanding the first threads of yours a few months ago I read r.e. cycling??

Then it says it reduces nitrates<-----Have we suddenly discovered something here I wonder?

So your experiment has cleared up the fact that the substrate is not the culprit of the Ph rising (I'll put some detail on that at the end - Johnny 5 has been acquiring more data) however the substrate you're using doesn't seem suited to a planted aquarium from the marketing blurb. Whether it actually 'does what it says on the can' is another matter. If it does it may not be helping this issue.

According to Carib Sea's website the Torpedo version is not suitable for burrowers which the Rams are!!! They eat by burrowing and sifting.

http/www.caribsea.com/pages/products/instant_aquarium.html

I would sort it out if I could prove something is in need of being sorted out, and knowing what needs to be changed to sort it.. I hope that neatly sums up why I will probably never get to grips with what is raising the PH as I've outlined whats in the tank and the fact that it's contents do not induce alkalinity.

TBH we can't ever 'prove' anything. Thats what science is about. It is never a definate or science would eventually be finished to be replaced with fact

It is especially hard when the 'test sample' is not in our hands to work with so we are just going off descriptions and information here

What I am trying to do is not suggest this that and the other should be done or changed or could be the problems. The obvious ones like filtration, flow etc can all be done together but from then it is best to work from one thing to the next eliminating things on the way. then you don't get a change for the better/worse and not know which of the several things changed was the cause of the improvement/decline.

I think you must be implying that the manufacturers of the substrate are not being honest with me as that is the only thing within the tank that I've felt would raise the PH.

Would I suggest that I couldn't possibly do that. I have no money to afford a lawyer to fight a libel case. lol. All I can say is there is a huge difference between marketing and true science. Often the scientific findings can be manipulated in language to suggest something that is not strictly the case.

What does 'adding circa' mean and what does 'EI level(s)' mean?

'Circa' is just English (or to be more accurate, Latin) although I may have made it look like a product or term. By circa I mean approximately i.e. adding approximately X amount. Circa is a shorter word and quicker to type

EI levels means using the Estimative Index dosing regime in which the principle is dosing excess and then resetting the tank weekly with a large water change. An EI dosed tank will be targeting 'circa' 2ppm of phosphate. Dosing TPN+ has phosphate but at a lower ratio to EI and therefore would be dosing a lot less unless dosed heavily. I target circa 3ppm with the amounts I dose and that is on top of the 0.6ppm in the tap water in the weekly 50% water change.

My phosphate test kit indicates 0 ppm of phosphate in the tap water but I was using a quite unreliable test kit by NTlabs. NTlab water test results are always different to API's water test results and I know which brand I'd use to get an understanding of what is in the tank water.

Hobby kits are no good for phosphate testing. Doesn't matter what brand. You need to spend ££ to get reliable test kits for anything other than Ph.

Maybe I should contact the water board but whats to stop them from using a similar test kit to me lol?[

Ermmm The law stops them and also transparency/scrutiny means they use real laboratory test equipment and processes. I know someone who does this for Anglian water. Their tests measure the nitrate in terms of 0.1ppm. Hobby test kits only show ppms in terms of 5,10, 20ppm etc. and still aren't accurate. So even if the hobby kits were accurate the 'water board's' test results are in the region of 50x or more closer to the actual. For example my report (I just checked) says for nitrate and phosphate (Phosphorus):

Nitrate:
2010 - 6 samples taken, lowest reading-10.2ppm, highest reading 17.6ppm, average of the 6 samples-14.5ppm

Phosphate:
2010 - 9 samples taken, lowest reading 0.514ppm, highest reading 0.679ppm average of the 9 samples 0.601ppm.

Just from looking at this I can see that nitrates and phosphates have risen slightly since the summer when I checked it in answer to a sifferent thread. That is due to rainfall washing fertiliser into the water from agricultural Lincolnshire fields.

So you see what I mean? Trust those reports. They are way more accurate than you would ever expect. They have to be. It is the law!!! and it is monitored from water companies being held to account in by ombudsmen and committees in Whitehall and fined for breaches etc.

My report also says my KH is 17.427 KH which will be the true reading. Last time I saw a test on my water (I had a single Tetra test strip that came with something else I bought) it looked like between 6KH and 9KH to me. lol That is way off

The API nitrate liquid tests showed circa 5ppm yet we can see above that figure is also way off the actual and I know I add a lot more than is already in the tap. So it reads 5ppm and it should read in the region of 30-40ppm.

The Ph was accurate though

I do like the idea of a floating plant. Sadly, I only have duckweed which could easily get into the filter and I may have to remove most of my substrate-based plants (especially egeria densa) as they need full/high light levels to thrive.

Egeria grows in good conditions. Doesn't need high light.

What floating plant would you recommend?

Egeria Densa floats and it is a floating plant that we push into the substrate. lol. Try that. It will get plenty of light there too if it reassures you

p.s. well done for not using the antibiotic route. You will get there eventually and it will be another knotch for your aquarium stand's post. Get the swiss army knife ready for that day.


So onto Why your water's Ph (and maybe KH) rises after a couple of days (You may already have been told this, but I have learnt something new tonight )

The water that we drink comes from many sources. Some acidic, some alkaline etc. The water companies use buffers and other chemicals to try and keep the drinking water at a relatively neutral Ph.

Neutral of course is 7.0 however they normally attempt to keep the Ph a little higher.

So they may use phosphates to increase the Ph. They also supersaturate the water with CO2 to pull the Ph down. More than likely they will use a combination of these 2 plus many others.

Why? I am not sure on the actual reasons in terms of our drinking water needs. Maybe it is so we aren't killing ourselves. lol because we are in fact drinking water that has a 'real' Ph much different to that initial reading that we see.

The reason they add the phosphate to acidic water is because if the water is acidic there is a risk of lead pipes and/or lead solder on pipes dissolving into the water. So if they keep the water just above 7 it removes this risk. Lead of course hsa long been known to be harmful to all but there will still be lead pipes around even though they have removed most of them and continue to remove what others are left.

I would guess there are large numbers of houses with old pipes and lead solder used on them.

So whilst you add your drinking water to your aquarium you are adding water which is actual 8.4? but reads at the time 7.4? That is why it changes after a few days. As it gasses off.

Now you may think why do we need to add CO2 via pressurised/yeast etc? why not do water changes every couple of days? Many people have suggested it, many have tried it. Doesn't work I'm afraid. lol

So that puts the Ph rise to bed and me too. Its late and I'm tired from yet more learning.

Goodnight. Johnny 5 needs more data but also needs a bit of sleep. lol


AC

 

[mark4785]

It also says it detoxifies metals (traces/micros) and eliminates ammonia. From that statement it is removing the traces and if it eliminates ammonia I'm not understanding the first threads of yours a few months ago I read r.e. cycling??

Which threads are you referring to?

I'd agree that something is removing the iron fairly quickly, but as already mentioned, if you deprive a plant of nutrients/light, which I have been doing when conducting a blackout, it will utilise the traces quicker when light is re-introduced. Whatsmore, my light source is ridicuously high so maybe the traces are being utilised by the plants or removed via W/C. I doubt the substrate has the capacity to continually neutralise the traces.

According to Carib Sea's website the Torpedo version is not suitable for burrowers which the Rams are!!! They eat by burrowing and sifting.

My German Blue Ram eats directly out of my hand and does not attempt to find food from the substrate. I make the burrows for the ram and he goes within them to go to sleep. I have seen him burrow before but it looked like he was doing it to rub the bottom part of his head (just in front of the gill) so I'm not sure he's attempting to burrow an hole; he's more just itching himself. German Blue Rams aren't bottom dwellers either so, I'm sorry but I don't see whats wrong with the substrate.

The manufacturer of the substrate say that it is suitable for planted aquariums ( as stated here: http/www.caribsea.com/pages/products/instant_aquarium.html ), whereas you state the opposite. The fact that two different statements can be deduced indicates that they are mere opinions and not something I'd take seriously enough to start completely removing all of the substrate (as well as the fish, plants, bog wood etc).

It would appear that the substrates' ability to remove nitrate or purify the water is not in the correct gear otherwise I would have seen reductions in nitrate and other things it reasonable claims it can neutralise. When I didn't have the c02 system, and I was relying on EasyLife Easycarbo, I noticed that the nitrate would reduce by 5-10 ppm on days when I applied it and would not budge on days I'd forgot to dose it. So any nitrate removal is down to the plants and the carbonic acid concentrations they create from the Easycarbo to then photosynthesis after utilising nitrate among other things to grow. In addition, before I converted the aquarium into a planted tank, nitrate levels would accumulate; the substrate played no function in lowering the nitrate level.

So they may use phosphates to increase the Ph. They also supersaturate the water with CO2 to pull the Ph down. More than likely they will use a combination of these 2 plus many others.

Thanks for answering that. I think thats a good explanation. A person at my LFS couldn't understand why my pond water goes to a PH level of 8.4. He insisted me and my dad look for any cement or other solids which may have dropped into the water and induced alkalinity. I think the water companies employment of 'supersaturation of c02' together with the fact that there is a blanketweed issue in the pond (the blanketweed will use all of the carbonic acid up in order to produce oxygen) explains the reading of 8.4. Maybe if the water company didn't mass inject c02 into the water, the blanketweed wouldn't have such an easy time growing?!

Egeria Densa floats and it is a floating plant that we push into the substrate. lol. Try that. It will get plenty of light there too if it reassures you

I was aware that it floated too but I thought it look a little out of place. For instance, water lilies or water lettuce look like more genuine floaters which don't look out of place. But an ageria densa stalk on it's side? Floating? Ugh... *goes outside, rips conifer up, flips it 90 degrees, and places it onto a lake surface*.

I will for now use egeria densa as a floating plant as a good aim, in my opinion, should be to deplete some of the light levels in the tank no matter what sort of plant is creating the shade.

 

[mark4785]

Thankfully the internal filter with UV-C has arrived. I will pop that in on Thursday and start a 6 day blackout. The blackouts are making my Egeria densa' look really frail and where the cyanobactera has took hold on my Limnophila, the leaves are looking more pale. I guess I will need a few more plants after the blackout!

 

[mbsqw1d]

Egeria Densa floats and it is a floating plant that we push into the substrate. lol. Try that. It will get plenty of light there too if it reassures you

I was aware that it floated too but I thought it look a little out of place. For instance, water lilies or water lettuce look like more genuine floaters which don't look out of place. But an ageria densa stalk on it's side? Floating? Ugh... *goes outside, rips conifer up, flips it 90 degrees, and places it onto a lake surface*.

I will for now use egeria densa as a floating plant as a good aim, in my opinion, should be to deplete some of the light levels in the tank no matter what sort of plant is creating the shade.

yeah, looks terrible but was thinking of an instant solution to your requirements. I mean, it's not exactly going to ruin the look of your algae infested tank at the moment is it?