Cyanobacteria Questions & White Spores

[mbsqw1d]

Problem solved, woohoo! Would you say it was the UV light/filter? If so, then at least if we don't know what the cause was, we know that UV light is a great tool for removing it! Good work for persisting mark4785! This has been a very educational read too - (thanks Supercoley1!)

 

[SuperColey1]

Glad its sorted. There are times when something improves and we can't put our finger on why the change occurred. I shouldn't worry too much.

Like I said on the iron. I shouldn't worry about it going to zero. The amounts plants need really is very very low as with all 'trace' elements. Trace means exactly that. The plants will be taking the iron immediately.

Hope all goes well from here on

AC

 

[mark4785]

Now it's gone...

What has changed since you had it at its worst?

Lighting/Dosages etc?

I am dosing the aquarium with EasyLife macro/micro plant fertilisers every day instead of every other day and I've tripled the dosing, particularly the nitrates and phosphates since reading that these are more important to plants than trace elements.

There is also about 3-4 times more water circulation and the addition of floating egeria densas.

Congratulations, I know you worked hard to get rid of it. I'm glad for you. How many plants did you lose from the blackouts?

I lost all of my egeria densa plants that were planted in the substrate. The others, for some reason, looked healthier after blackouts than they did when they were trying to grow with cyanobacteria stuck to them.


I have some extra input to add regarding ridding the front of my tank from algae. I'm pretty sure that planting more foreground style plants would solve the algae issue but I'd appreciate other's opinions just incase more or something entirely different would need to be done.

Here are pictures of the brown algae that is thriving on the front glass pane and forming on the substrate:

If I need several foreground plants to be planted and grow in the location of the algae to 'steal' it's nutrients, what ideal plant(s) are there that aren't too fussy or which would most appreciate my aquarium specifications?

I've noticed that my 3 'Limnophila sessiliflora' are prone to algae growing on them, as can be seen by the pictures below:

I'm a bit stumped as to what is wrong with them. I've upped my fertiliser nutrient dosing (still relying on the EasyLife range) to: 5-10 ppm of Nitro (Nitrate) 10ppm of Fosfo (Phosphate), 10 ppm of Profito (NPK) and 10ppm of Ferro (Iron) and I've manipulated the c02 diffuser's timer so that sufficient c02 is available most days at lights on. Also, the Limnophilia's are in the path of the outlet pipe for both filters and the powerhead so there's definitely circulation around them. If some of the leaves are getting battered around by the water thrown out from a filter/powerhead can this cause them to begin to decay?

Due to them being fast-growers, could it be that the shoots come to the end of their life cycle at a quicker rate?

Lastly, is this the formation of BGA on my cyptocoryne broad leaved plant???

It is the only corner plant where the leaves (being broad) may buffer against the water flow so I'm pondering if it is BGA since lack of flow is also a valid thing that induces it to form. There are absolutely no signs of a bluey-green formation elsewhere.

 

[mark4785]

Bump

 

[Biulu]

Yes, I think it is BGA or BBA. It looks more like BBA on the right hand leaf.

 

[mark4785]

Yes, I think it is BGA or BBA. It looks more like BBA on the right hand leaf.

It is indeed cyanobacteria. Strands of it have appeared on another plant. At least I know what I'll be preoccupied with all christmas............

How could the cyanobacteria possibly return given the changes I've made?

 

[mark4785]

Any further help regarding stopping cyanobacteria from forming would be most appreciated. I've tackled the problem of low nitrate causing it to form (nitrate level is 40 ppm), I've increased circulation as there's 2 filters and a powerhead collectively taking in about 1500 litres of water per hour.

Are the other causes of cyanobacteria dirty filters and dirty substrate?

My filters can't be dirty because I dunk them in a bucket of tank water every 2-3 weeks; I don't do this in response to the water agitation becoming less noticeable so It's not as though I'm cleaning a dirty clogged up filter.

The substrate is in good condition, there's no trapped detritus as I do a gravel vac every 3-5 days. There's just a lot of brown algae forming in it.

Could a lack of plants be causing it to form?!

 

[SuperColey1]

The brown algae is diatoms. Comes with the changes. Otos will get rid of it within a day or 2.

The Cyano etc is not a case of sort out 1 thing and it goes. You've now sorted out the flow, the filtration, the plants etc. You are working your way along eliminating the possible causes but there is still the CO2 to sort out and get pumping properly.

Personally cleaning internal filters every 2-3 weeks sounds a long time to me. I would be cleaning internals weekly. Externals monthly due to the much larger capacity.

AC

 

[mark4785]

The brown algae is diatoms. Comes with the changes. Otos will get rid of it within a day or 2.

The Cyano etc is not a case of sort out 1 thing and it goes. You've now sorted out the flow, the filtration, the plants etc. You are working your way along eliminating the possible causes but there is still the CO2 to sort out and get pumping properly.

Personally cleaning internal filters every 2-3 weeks sounds a long time to me. I would be cleaning internals weekly. Externals monthly due to the much larger capacity.

AC

Ok, I will start to clean the filters every week (Saturday would be a good day).

As mentioned before, and in my PM to you, my Dennerle branded drop-checker is always coloured a light green at lights on so there is c02 in there. I just don't know how to keep the c02 levels steady over a long period of time. At present 2 bubbles of c02 enter the tank per second, based on what I've observed from the flipper. I don't actually have a bubble-counter , do I need one?

There's also the issue of a certain amount of sun light getting into the room during day light hours which gets me concerned because the c02 and nutrients are not in the aquarium during this period and the light levels may be causing a bit of photosynthesis. My larger plants tend to lean towards the direction from which the sun light is coming which gives it away.

When I did the fishless cycle on my aquarium this summer, the sun would have been high in the sky which would explain the lack of algae formation, but during autumn and winter, when the sun gets lower in the sky, it looks as though too much light is getting into the aquarium room.

It might be worth setting the aquarium lights, nutrients and c02 to be available during day light hours to sort this out.

 

[mark4785]

Since omitting to use the EasyLife fertiliser range in favour of the Estimative index range described at the James' planted tank website, the Cyanobacteria hasn't re-formed which I am really pleased about. However, it would appear that EI dosing has caused another more serious issue.

Ever since turning to EI dosing, my nitrite level has been fluctuating to 0.25. The fish are still hungry and are not subdued in anyway though which I find to be odd as a fluctuated nitrite level usually causes a change in behaviour. Does the ingredients listed on James' website, for EI dosing, cause nitrite levels to increase or cause the API nitrite test kit to malfunction??

Also, after using the dosing calculator provided on James' website which explains how much of a micro or macro nutrient solution is required in a given capacity of water to get a certain ppm concentration, I've found the calculator to be a bit inaccurate.

The website, for instance, states that 33g of potassium nitrate and 7.2g of potassium phosphate substance dissolved in 250ml water, equates to 3.37ppm of potassium nitrate and 0.84ppm of potassium phosphate if 5ml of solution is added to 120 litres of water (my aquarium capacity). Based on this, I've been adding 13ml of potassium nitrate to 120 ltrs of water to get a ppm lvl of 8.77. But it would appear that even after adding 8.77ppm worth of nitrate, it will exceed this and raise to 25-30 ppm! Maybe it's just my test kit?

edit: one thing I ought to mention which may explain the raised nitrite reading is the fact that snails have entered the tank and I've been removing between 1-5 of them each day via hand and 2-3 can be found in the filter. Isn't there a harmless form of nitrite associated with the fertilisers I'm using??

 

[lljdma06]

Probably your test kit is giving a false reading based on the ingredients in your fert mix. My dechlorinator used to to that for me way back. Scared me for a split second until I noticed the fry growing and the plants thriving. Then, you learn to throw the test kits away. Stopped using test kits ages ago.

Haven't used EI since 2006, so can't vouch for the accuracy of the calculator in question as I did EI differently, but 25-30ppm of nitrate is not a bad thing in an EI planted tank, from what I remember.

 

[SuperColey1]

As per Llj. Dosing the ingredients from the EI mix won't affect nitrIte at all. That organic and something else must be doing that (if the test kit is right)

The calculators are fine for you to know what you are adding and nothing else. They won't tell you the level in the tank as there will be other already existing forms in the tank for virtually all the ingredients.

i.e. if you add fish food you are adding some of everything straight away, then when the fish poop you get ammonia some of which the filter turns to nitrite and then to nitrate. If you do water changes you will be adding all the needed elements in small quantities etc. The substrate may hold some nutrient via CEC and even produce some nutrient if organic etc.

So the calculators are telling you if you add X ml then you are adding X ppm. They cannot tell you what Xppm plus existing is.

I wouldn't worry Mark. Keep testing if it eases your mind or interests you to see readings however the fish and plants are your test kit. They seem to be waving a big 'No Problems Here' sign from your description and the Cyano easing also tells a good story

Relax and do what you bought the setup for.......sitting and watching your own 'slice of nature'

AC

 

[mark4785]

As per Llj. Dosing the ingredients from the EI mix won't affect nitrIte at all. That organic and something else must be doing that (if the test kit is right)

The calculators are fine for you to know what you are adding and nothing else. They won't tell you the level in the tank as there will be other already existing forms in the tank for virtually all the ingredients.

i.e. if you add fish food you are adding some of everything straight away, then when the fish poop you get ammonia some of which the filter turns to nitrite and then to nitrate. If you do water changes you will be adding all the needed elements in small quantities etc. The substrate may hold some nutrient via CEC and even produce some nutrient if organic etc.

So the calculators are telling you if you add X ml then you are adding X ppm. They cannot tell you what Xppm plus existing is.

I wouldn't worry Mark. Keep testing if it eases your mind or interests you to see readings however the fish and plants are your test kit. They seem to be waving a big 'No Problems Here' sign from your description and the Cyano easing also tells a good story

Relax and do what you bought the setup for.......sitting and watching your own 'slice of nature'

AC

Well if I wasn't adding the potassium nitrate, the nitrate level in the tank after a good 50% W/C is usually 5-10 ppm. So at maximum that would be 10 ppm (from nitrification processes etc) + 8.7 ppm (manually added by potassium nitrate) = 18.7 ppm. Looks as though there is more than that at the moment according to the nitrate kit. I guess my nitrate level, albeit higher than expected, isn't high enough to cause health issues.

With regards to the accuracy of the nitrite test kit, I've opened a thread at the UKAPS.org website on the advice of the owner of Fluidsensoronline.com who couldn't tell me if the EI dry-substances I bought from him can interfere with an API test kit. He stated that UKAPS.org would be the best place to go to get a good answer. The link to the thread at that website is: http/www.ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14256 .

When the tank lights come on at 11:30am I guess I'll just have to sit there for 20 minutes observing the fish for nitrite poisoning to get a clue as to whether the tank is nitrite free or not. The snails that are in there, and probably dieing have made me think that the nitrite reading of 0.50 ppm (got this reading yesterday) may be accurate. But there was never an ammonia spike prior to this which would indicate that the nitrite level hasn't formed from ammonia through nitrification; so maybe the snails aren't involved?! lol

 

[coldcazzie]

Small update on my situation - when I moved house I removed all the gravel and replaced with ferts and sand cap, and then replanted all my plants which were sat in a bucket for a week. Lost some, but most seem to have survived, and are now I think enjoying the plants substrate I bought in the meantime though, there is a trace of the BGA returning, I suspect from the plants. Going to put the UV bulb into the filter next time I clean it out, and see what effect that has. Although it's only slight at this stage, it's spread from one of the plants across the sand and I'd like to nip it in the bud - the tank looked lovely before that hint of deep bluey-green started back again

 

[mark4785]

Small update on my situation - when I moved house I removed all the gravel and replaced with ferts and sand cap, and then replanted all my plants which were sat in a bucket for a week. Lost some, but most seem to have survived, and are now I think enjoying the plants substrate I bought in the meantime though, there is a trace of the BGA returning, I suspect from the plants. Going to put the UV bulb into the filter next time I clean it out, and see what effect that has. Although it's only slight at this stage, it's spread from one of the plants across the sand and I'd like to nip it in the bud - the tank looked lovely before that hint of deep bluey-green started back again

Hi, sorry to hear you're still struggling with cyano. It really can get frustrating dealing with it until you work out what to do that discourages it.

For me, after installing the following filter with powerful output flow and equally powerful UV-C, the cyanobacteria stopped growing and my German Blue Ram isn't rubbing as much in response to, presumably, cyanotoxins:

http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160521523681&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

I've also started using EDTA ferts from fluidsensoronline.com and no longer use the EasyLife fert range.

If you have a flow problem, no UV or suspect your dosing regime is the culprit, try changing your approaches to one or more of these things and cyano should hopefully start to die off for you too.

Mark.