Crap! Piranhas, Gar, Cichlids, And A Blue Lobster. What To Do?

[auxillary]

I put my fish in a perdiciment and I need as much help as possible because there are many differant outcomes to this situation and I don't want to lose my fish. First let me say this..I have 4 tanks. And this is the situation they are in right now.. try not to laugh, I did my research about the Gar and the Lobster AFTER i baught them because I was stupid enough to believe somone at Petland knew what they were talking about.. I need to rearange these fish the best way possible because I feel they are pretty much not compatible anymore after what I read, but if a risk is necassary I'm willing to take it, depending on who will get ate. When I baught the Gar he was in a 10 gal tank with plecos sucking on him. I read that is bad, he has what looks like blood on his tail. Petland said he is fine in a 10 gal so he should be ok in a 35 gal. Anyway, heres a list of where my tanks are right now. Maybe you guys wouldn't mind helping me rearange things so I don't have to take my gar and lobster back.

55 gal tank- 80-82 degrees, lots of cover and oxygen, nice filter
3-red belly piranhas - 5 inches
5-cutter cichlids - 1-4 inches
1-pleco- 5 inches

35 gal tank- 74-76 degrees, lots of cover and oxygen
1- Shortnose Gar- 12 inches (I believe thats what he is)
20 or so - Cutter cichlids, most are around an inch with 3 or 4 full grown to 4 inches
1-Bristlenose Pleco- 5 inches
1- Dinosaur Eel- 5 inches

10 gal tank- 74 degrees with the light on, heater is broke, decent oxygen..
4- Adult tiger barbs
1- baby Pleco

10 gal feeder tank, no heater, no extra oxygen other then the filter
Lots of commets, rosey reds and maybe fancy tail guppies w/e they are
1-Blue Lobster
1-Chinese Algea Eater

I like the Gar but if he's going to be too problematic I'll take him back. I'd really like to put him in with the piranhas because I'm assuming he's going to eat my cichlids and the tank is too small, but I don't know how well the piranha tank would work or if he'll eat the piranhas. Maybe he's aggressive enough to keep them away? My red bellies are actually kind of wusses, they wont mess with my pleco, and theres a feeder guppie and some cichlids with them that they won't eat either. Today was the first time I baught them comets so live food is not somthing they are really used to whether that matters or not. The lobster is great but I read that he'll possiblly eat my algea eater and my feeders. What would you do?

 

[Mr._Fishy]

Do you have a latin name for the "cutter cichlid"? The gar is going to grow huge, way way way to big for any of your tanks. Eventually in a 55g with 3 RBP's and the fish you mentioned, there is likely going to be one outcome. One RBP. For a shoal of 3 or more, look at 75g+. I would also ditch the baby pleco as you already have one in your 55g. I have no idea about the lobster. Depending on the species of cichlid, the dinosaur eel may eat them evenutally.

Where are you located? If you are near me, I could take some of the problem fish of your hand.

Ryan

 

[raptorrex]

I can only really comment on the lobster tank, depending on the type of Cray 10g may be enough, but with other stock, i would council, it too small. in this situation there is a real chance the CAE will be for the chop! it may be ok in the 35g but i really don't know enough about gar's to say. that said, putting any Crayfish in the tank puts your fish, potentially, in danger. i would defiantly suggest you get it in a tank of its own, or return it.

 

[Davo86]

Your shortnose Gar is the smallest gar available i believe but wil still reach about 3 ft in length which is too big for any of your tanks, It will need rehomed or a much larger tank.

Also atm your piranhas are likely to be juveniles, once they mature your other free swimming fish won't have a chance, plecos and pirranhas is also risky, sometimes it works and sometimes it goes badly wrong. The number of piranhas you have is also risky, in smaller numbers you usually find that one day the two weaker ones will be killed off as you don't have a large enough shoal so that the aggression is shared out. IMO they need rehoming

your baby pleco is probably a common that should reach anywhere from 12 to 18 inches so will need a bigger tank.

You also are terribly overcrowded with cutter cichlids. rehome them before you get overun.

Feeders aren't a good idea, Goldfish are fatty and unhealthy long term for your fish, they also carry diseases which can harm your other fish. Not to mention that your feeder tank is terribly overstocked by the sounds which means that you are increasing the likelyhood of the feeders having diseases. I would forget about feeders and give the fish more nutritious foods that they will benefit from.

Below is a possible outcome which would allow you to restock with more suitable fish

55 gal tank
Dinosaur Eel (polypterus senegalus)
Chinese Algae Eater
pleco

35 gal tank Cutter cichlids, (Cichlasoma septemfasciatum)
Bristlenose Pleco

10 gal tank
4- Adult tiger barbs

10 gal
Blue Crayfish

 

[auxillary]

Thanks for the replies guys, I just want you all to know that for all of these fish I've done my research before I purchased them except the Lobster and Gar. (Which was a dumbass mistake that I won't be making again) But I know all about the plecos sizes and so forth, I was just trying to figure out what to do with the Gar and the lobster, everything else probably isn't going to change much but lets see... (sorry quotes aren't working)


"Your shortnose Gar is the smallest gar available i believe but wil still reach about 3 ft in length which is too big for any of your tanks, It will need rehomed or a much larger tank.


Also atm your piranhas are likely to be juveniles, once they mature your other free swimming fish won't have a chance, plecos and pirranhas is also risky, sometimes it works and sometimes it goes badly wrong. The number of piranhas you have is also risky, in smaller numbers you usually find that one day the two weaker ones will be killed off as you don't have a large enough shoal so that the aggression is shared out. IMO they need rehoming

your baby pleco is probably a common that should reach anywhere from 12 to 18 inches so will need a bigger tank.

You also are terribly overcrowded with cutter cichlids. rehome them before you get overun.

Feeders aren't a good idea, Goldfish are fatty and unhealthy long term for your fish, they also carry diseases which can harm your other fish. Not to mention that your feeder tank is terribly overstocked by the sounds which means that you are increasing the likelyhood of the feeders having diseases. I would forget about feeders and give the fish more nutritious foods that they will benefit from.

Below is a possible outcome which would allow you to restock with more suitable fish

55 gal tank
Dinosaur Eel (polypterus senegalus)
Chinese Algae Eater
pleco

35 gal tank Cutter cichlids, (Cichlasoma septemfasciatum)
Bristlenose Pleco

10 gal tank
4- Adult tiger barbs

10 gal
Blue Crayfish"

I'm going to attempt having a pleco in the piranha tank no matter the outcome because I want a bottom feeder and its a risk I'm willing to take, and I've seen it work.

I can't afford a bigger tank right now and I don't plan on getting rid of the rbp.. other then the size of the tank; the living conditions are very good for the rb's. I read at my tank size that no more then 3 is the best for adult rb's but 4 is pushing it. If you think over crowding in a small 55gal tank is a lesser evil then having 3 in a shoal then I'll do that. Other then that, the oxygen in that tank is very rich with 2 small l.e.d. lights with air, and 1 decor bubbler. Also theres a powerhead and a very nice filter, not to mention the tank is cleaned once every week or so. It's dark for them with plenty of cover to hide. I've done my research on the RB's pretty well.. So I may over crowd them with 1 more if they'll let another join if you think that will stop them from killing each other in the long run. IMO thier living conditions are much better then most people who post videos on you tube of thier adult size piranhas in tanks with bright lights, no cover and I'm assuming who only feed thier piranhas live food. I'm trying to take better care of these fish who seem to get tortured by us humans more then they should but I'm not going to the amazon to get them food either, if you know what I mean. (no offense)

I'm not worried about the baby pleco, I can always switch him out if he gets too big..

The cichlids are mostly babies and I'm only really worried about the parents, the rest of the babies for the most part I planned on being piranha food if they kept having babies. Like I said I typically haven't fed my piranhas live food, but I want them to have a balanced diet as they would in the wild, so live food will be more of a treat for them rather then an every day occurance. They mostly get beef heart, cichlid sticks, and shrimp. I'm not worried about population control because I prefer them to not be so aggressive tords each other and high population stops the territories from being built. My eel doesn't mind either, he's ate at least 3 of them in the 6 months I've had him.

I'm going for a decently aggressive cichlid tank but not overly aggressive like when theres territories- cichlids, eel, bristlenose all go together pretty well, but the question is, how would the Lobster fair in that tank?

I'm not worried about my pleco sizes, I will take care of them if they get too big by moving them to another tank or giving them to sombody

I'm definetly going to have to take the Gar back, HE'S TOO BIG! And I'm going to talk to the supervisor at Petland about his living conditions at the store.

I dont necassaarily need a feeder tank, but a blue lobster will be pretty boring looking by himself, after these feeder fish are gone, I may look up some tank mates for the blue lobster, he's a cool guy and I want him to be happy no matter what tank he's in.

"Do you have a latin name for the "cutter cichlid"? The gar is going to grow huge, way way way to big for any of your tanks. Eventually in a 55g with 3 RBP's and the fish you mentioned, there is likely going to be one outcome. One RBP. For a shoal of 3 or more, look at 75g+. I would also ditch the baby pleco as you already have one in your 55g. I have no idea about the lobster. Depending on the species of cichlid, the dinosaur eel may eat them evenutally.

Where are you located? If you are near me, I could take some of the problem fish of your hand.

Ryan "

No latin name, I have some pictures I'll post tonight if I remember. Yea I'm taking the Gar back, he deserves a better home. I don't think the dinosaur eel will be able to eat anything other then baby cichlids, which is fine, he's too small for the adults and the cichlids are mean so unless they are shooting up heroine at night they'll fight him off if he trys. And I'm in Ohio so unless your coming to me..lol no

"I can only really comment on the lobster tank, depending on the type of Cray 10g may be enough, but with other stock, i would council, it too small. in this situation there is a real chance the CAE will be for the chop! it may be ok in the 35g but i really don't know enough about gar's to say. that said, putting any Crayfish in the tank puts your fish, potentially, in danger. i would defiantly suggest you get it in a tank of its own, or return it.
Ryan"

The lobster might look good in the cichlid tank and the only fish in there I really care about is the adult cichlids (whom I doubt the lobster could get) and the bristlenose pleco and eel. Putting the lobster in that tank would free up the feeder tank but do you think the Lobster would allow a live and let live situation with the Eel and the Bristlenose?

 

[Davo86]

I didn't say anything about the amount of space you have given the piranhas, in fact I agree that they have enough space and from the sounds you have done some good research into setting the tank up in the correct way that will benefit them. However i was simply informing you that in low numbers the dominant Piranha in the bunch will often turn on the others.

Although i disagree with using feeders i also feel that your home bred cutter cichlid fry would benefit them much more than the goldfish, In fact your Polypterus will probably eat more and more of your fry as it grows, a fully grown dinosaur eel will likely be able to hunt fish up to about 2inches in size.

I wouldn't put your crayfish with the cichlids or eel, there was a post made today on one of the threads about someone who put a crayfish in with cichlids and it was rather quickly killed off.

 

[auxillary]

I didn't say anything about the amount of space you have given the piranhas, in fact I agree that they have enough space and from the sounds you have done some good research into setting the tank up in the correct way that will benefit them. However i was simply informing you that in low numbers the dominant Piranha in the bunch will often turn on the others.

Although i disagree with using feeders i also feel that your home bred cutter cichlid fry would benefit them much more than the goldfish, In fact your Polypterus will probably eat more and more of your fry as it grows, a fully grown dinosaur eel will likely be able to hunt fish up to about 2inches in size.

I wouldn't put your crayfish with the cichlids or eel, there was a post made today on one of the threads about someone who put a crayfish in with cichlids and it was rather quickly killed off.

Good point,
I've done some more research and I see what your saying about the rbp's, and I decided to add more rbp's to the tank to even out the aggression. Only problem is mine are 4 1/2 inches and the store paranhas are 20 - 30 bucks at that size and I quit my job last night . So I think I'm going to try adding 3 of the biggest baby piranhas they have so I don't go broke. They do grow fast so I'm going to hope for the best.

It's funny to see the eel eating a cichlid because the cichlid is so much bigger then the eels head. I've never actually seen the cichlid alive when he's eating it so honestly, he might be eating a already dead fish. Either way they are the smallest ones. I'll keep an eye on him tho, I haven't seen him attack any fish, he gets along very well with the bristle nose, they share some of the hiding spots without any problems. The bristle nose gets all mad when the cichlids come around tho and flares up his spikes on his gills and smacks them with his tail. But he'll lay right next to the eel and doesn't act threatened... I love the personalities in this tank.

 

[Mr._Fishy]

Good job doing your research! But adding much smaller P's to an already established shoal is a recipe for disaster. Piranhas in the wild will prey on the smaller weak fish. If you are set on more fish I would put the babies in a grow out tank until they get near the same size. You might have problems from overcrowding though. In all honesty I would suggest keeping a solitary specimen in the 55g. My uncle had a single RBP and a shoal in separate tanks and the single piranha was much less skittish. Piranhas school together to avoid becoming food. They still have a lot of distrust toward each other though and that is why you often get an entire tank of panicked piranhas.

Cichlids' spines can cause some problem to other fish who attempt to consume them. I would exercise caution when using these as food.

A full grown Polypterus sengalus can eat fish much larger than 2". I once had a 10" eat a 5" spiny eel. A member once had his not so full grown bichir eat a congo tetra. Be careful what tankmates are placed into the tank. Most tall fish should be safe.

Ryan

 

[dwarfgourami]

It seems a petty objection to be making on the predator's forum, but I think 4 tiger barbs in a 10 gallon tank is likely to end in tears. They need bigger schools to spread aggression and quite a bit of space to do it in. I have to trust to other people when it comes to gars and piranhas, but the keeping tiger barbs in small tanks is one I have tried and it didn't work.

 

[raptorrex]

I'd have to say that 10g is too small for the Tiger barbs, as the probably need a bigger shoal to avoid group infighting.

i;d need to know the breed of Crayfish, its just that 10g could well be too small. and if you want to keep anything with it, it would, without doubt, need to be of over 30g. add to this that if it is not an Redclaw, it should not be kept with tropical fish at tropical temperatures.

 

[auxillary]

Good job doing your research! But adding much smaller P's to an already established shoal is a recipe for disaster. Piranhas in the wild will prey on the smaller weak fish. If you are set on more fish I would put the babies in a grow out tank until they get near the same size. You might have problems from overcrowding though. In all honesty I would suggest keeping a solitary specimen in the 55g. My uncle had a single RBP and a shoal in separate tanks and the single piranha was much less skittish. Piranhas school together to avoid becoming food. They still have a lot of distrust toward each other though and that is why you often get an entire tank of panicked piranhas.

Cichlids' spines can cause some problem to other fish who attempt to consume them. I would exercise caution when using these as food.

A full grown Polypterus sengalus can eat fish much larger than 2". I once had a 10" eat a 5" spiny eel. A member once had his not so full grown bichir eat a congo tetra. Be careful what tankmates are placed into the tank. Most tall fish should be safe.

Ryan

The guy at the fish store gave me a good discount so the new rbp's are around half the size of the older ones.. I put 3 iin last night and nobodys hurt or missing yet. I'm going to hope this works because I really don't want 1 fish in a 55 gal tank.

 

[auxillary]

It seems a petty objection to be making on the predator's forum, but I think 4 tiger barbs in a 10 gallon tank is likely to end in tears. They need bigger schools to spread aggression and quite a bit of space to do it in. I have to trust to other people when it comes to gars and piranhas, but the keeping tiger barbs in small tanks is one I have tried and it didn't work.

Sorry it didn't work out for you,
Those were my first fish around 2 years ago. They started out as 5 tigers in the 10 gall with a dory, and a small pleco. The dory died recently, probably due to the heater breaking then the power outage during the blizzard. I moved the pleco to a bigger tank when he grew too big and put a baby pleco in recently.. 1 of the barbs died about a year ago, I've tried adding 2 more to the group but they both ended up dieing. 2 years later they don't seem to be having any problems.

btw thanks again for the replies and advice.. I do have some pictures now and was curious to what code is used here to put them up.

once again thanks for the commets and advice.. I did take some pictures the other night before I took back the Gar, and I was wondering what code I need to use to post them here.

thanks for the comments and advice once again.. I did take some pictures the other night before I took back the Gar and I was wondering which code is used on this board to post them. If you guys want I'll post some pictures or a video of the rbp's and show you how they are doing (if I can sneak near them without them noticing and get good quality)

thanks for the comments and advice once again.. I did take some pictures the other night before I took back the Gar and I was wondering which code is used on this board to post them. If you guys want I'll post some pictures or a video of the rbp's and show you how they are doing (if I can sneak near them without them noticing and get good quality)

 

[Mr._Fishy]

Would love to see pics. Especially ones of the piranha tank.

Ryan

 

[wshdrvvn]

yes put up some pics! sorry i just read through all of this and would like to see what you are dealing with...

 

[auxillary]

Wow ok, so the dory didn't die! He was stuck in a ship lol. So, yea no more ship, he couldnt get out so my wife had to carefully pull him out.

And since I've added the 3 to the shoal of RBP's they seem to be much happier. 6 seems to be the number.. They don't act so skiddish anymore, and they actually swim about in the front of the tank with me standing there. And the little ones from the store are more aggressive then the one's I had originally.

I have some pictures I will post now I took during the situation.. sorry the glass on the tanks wasn't clean and has water spots but I was moving fish around so there was some splashing. I'll see if my wife will clean the tanks off good and take some better pictures tonight while I'm at work.