Corydora help...

[Umbra]

Hi guys!

I Just signed up and will post my intro a bit later, but this takes priority for now.

I am in love with my cory cats, and I'm wondering if it is fine to mix albinos and pandas. I mean, I know it's safe, but I just don't want them to interbreed.

Thanks for any info

 

[fluttermoth]

Pandas are one of the most likely to hybridise with other Corydoras species, so I'd advise against it.

 

[Umbra]

Pandas are one of the most likely to hybridise with other Corydoras species, so I'd advise against it.

Ah, I see, even though Albino cories are nearly twice a panda's size? Thanks for letting me know, I'll see what I an do regarding this dilemma.

 

[fluttermoth]

Size doesn't matter to egg laying fish

It's always best to keep single species groups of corydoras, where at all possible. Not only do you not have to worry about hybrid fry, the corys themselves will be happier amongst their own kind.

 

[Byron]

The problem is what you do with any fry that may occur; provided you keep any fry and do not release them into the hobby, there would be no problem.

I have 12 or so species in one tank, and spawning is regular within distinct species (I have observed a male/female of a species spawning, and removed the eggs and reared fry from some) but I also note cross-species interaction that appears to be pre-spawning behaviour but I've no way of knowing if any of this has lead to actual spawning; the species involved have 4 and even 10 of their own species, so this cross-species behaviour may not be related to actual spawning.

The "albino" cory could be one of three species. Albino cories do not occur naturally in nature; humans have developed the albino form from three species, Corydoras aeneus, C. paleatus and C. sterbai. There may be others now, I'm not aware of them. I mention this because C. sterbai and C.panda may be very closely related.

Ichthyologists now know that the genus Corydoras is polyphyletic, meaning that there are species within it that have not evolved from the same ancestor, or, put another way, the 160+ described species are descended from more than one common ancestor. The genus has been divided into nine clades, each of which is believed to be monophyletic, meaning that the species within each of these clades are all descended from the same common ancestor; Nijssen (1970) and Nijssen & Isbrucker (1980) proposed nine groups but the subsequent phylogenetic analyses are confirming this likelihood (Britto, 2003; Shimabukuro-Dias, et al, 2004; Alexandrou et al, 2011; Alexandrou & Taylor, 2011; Tencatt & Pavenelli, 2015). The ninth clade which includes C. panda is very species rich, and many of these species are relatively recently evolved (Alexandrou & Taylor, 2011). With very few exceptions, the species now classified in Corydoras are geographically distinct, so the chance of them cross-breeding in the wild is basically non-existent. There is really nothing stopping them when placed within the confines of an aquarium, and the close phylogenetic relationships within the entire Corydoradinae family certainly would not rule this out.


Byron.

 

[Umbra]

Size doesn't matter to egg laying fish

It's always best to keep single species groups of corydoras, where at all possible. Not only do you not have to worry about hybrid fry, the corys themselves will be happier amongst their own kind.

Thanks, that's true

The problem is what you do with any fry that may occur; provided you keep any fry and do not release them into the hobby, there would be no problem.

I have 12 or so species in one tank, and spawning is regular within distinct species (I have observed a male/female of a species spawning, and removed the eggs and reared fry from some) but I also note cross-species interaction that appears to be pre-spawning behaviour but I've no way of knowing if any of this has lead to actual spawning; the species involved have 4 and even 10 of their own species, so this cross-species behaviour may not be related to actual spawning.

The "albino" cory could be one of three species. Albino cories do not occur naturally in nature; humans have developed the albino form from three species, Corydoras aeneus, C. paleatus and C. sterbai. There may be others now, I'm not aware of them. I mention this because C. sterbai and C.panda may be very closely related.

Ichthyologists now know that the genus Corydoras is polyphyletic, meaning that there are species within it that have not evolved from the same ancestor, or, put another way, the 160+ described species are descended from more than one common ancestor. The genus has been divided into nine clades, each of which is believed to be monophyletic, meaning that the species within each of these clades are all descended from the same common ancestor; Nijssen (1970) and Nijssen & Isbrucker (1980) proposed nine groups but the subsequent phylogenetic analyses are confirming this likelihood (Britto, 2003; Shimabukuro-Dias, et al, 2004; Alexandrou et al, 2011; Alexandrou & Taylor, 2011; Tencatt & Pavenelli, 2015). The ninth clade which includes C. panda is very species rich, and many of these species are relatively recently evolved (Alexandrou & Taylor, 2011). With very few exceptions, the species now classified in Corydoras are geographically distinct, so the chance of them cross-breeding in the wild is basically non-existent. There is really nothing stopping them when placed within the confines of an aquarium, and the close phylogenetic relationships within the entire Corydoradinae family certainly would not rule this out.


Byron.

Hot damn, that's a really nice and interesting read! And yeah, i agree with what you mean and said at the very beginning, That and I'm a bit of a purist-freak myself, I don't like cross breeding and once I do breed a few fish, which i plan on doing, cos... its fun (did it a few years ago when i wasn't really "into" the hobby) I do plan on giving/selling them to my local fish stores if they have space (And they always have space...)

Thanks so much for the help guys, I really appreciate it Though, I now do have a bit of another question... and it breaks topic a bit, so I think I may just post a new thread for it. oh well, thanks

 

[DoubleDutch]

The problem is what you do with any fry that may occur; provided you keep any fry and do not release them into the hobby, there would be no problem.

I have 12 or so species in one tank, and spawning is regular within distinct species (I have observed a male/female of a species spawning, and removed the eggs and reared fry from some) but I also note cross-species interaction that appears to be pre-spawning behaviour but I've no way of knowing if any of this has lead to actual spawning; the species involved have 4 and even 10 of their own species, so this cross-species behaviour may not be related to actual spawning.

The "albino" cory could be one of three species. Albino cories do not occur naturally in nature; humans have developed the albino form from three species, Corydoras aeneus, C. paleatus and C. sterbai. There may be others now, I'm not aware of them. I mention this because C. sterbai and C.panda may be very closely related.

Ichthyologists now know that the genus Corydoras is polyphyletic, meaning that there are species within it that have not evolved from the same ancestor, or, put another way, the 160+ described species are descended from more than one common ancestor. The genus has been divided into nine clades, each of which is believed to be monophyletic, meaning that the species within each of these clades are all descended from the same common ancestor; Nijssen (1970) and Nijssen & Isbrucker (1980) proposed nine groups but the subsequent phylogenetic analyses are confirming this likelihood (Britto, 2003; Shimabukuro-Dias, et al, 2004; Alexandrou et al, 2011; Alexandrou & Taylor, 2011; Tencatt & Pavenelli, 2015). The ninth clade which includes C. panda is very species rich, and many of these species are relatively recently evolved (Alexandrou & Taylor, 2011). With very few exceptions, the species now classified in Corydoras are geographically distinct, so the chance of them cross-breeding in the wild is basically non-existent. There is really nothing stopping them when placed within the confines of an aquarium, and the close phylogenetic relationships within the entire Corydoradinae family certainly would not rule this out.


Byron.

Byron, agree with the biggest part but in my opinion albinos are not developed by humans. They are found in the wild (just like melanistic, leucistic and xanthistic individuals). They are all linebred afterwards. I've no knowledge of Pandas and aeneus hybridizing though pandas are notorious hybridizers. I keep 3 panda males with aeneus for.some time now.
BTW there exist albinos pandas as well
http://www.nettaigyo.com/corydoras/encyc/corydoras/panda.html

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G925F met Tapatalk

 

[Byron]

Byron, agree with the biggest part but in my opinion albinos are not developed by humans. They are found in the wild (just like melanistic, leucistic and xanthistic individuals). They are all linebred afterwards. I've no knowledge of Pandas and aeneus hybridizing though pandas are notorious hybridizers. I keep 3 panda males with aeneus for.some time now.
BTW there exist albinos pandas as well
http://www.nettaigyo.com/corydoras/encyc/corydoras/panda.html

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G925F met Tapatalk

I'd be interested in any source data you could provide on the albino issue, just to read up and alter my thinking. I had read (but don't ask me where, it was a while ago) that albino cories were not "natural," meaning in the wild, as such fish would not survive, but as I can't remember where I saw this...

And thanks for the panda link. So now there are four albino forms.

 

[DoubleDutch]

@Byron to be honest I don't have that info but in my opinion cross/linebreeding doesn't give the recessive albino, leucistic, melanistic and xanthistic gen if you don't genetical alter fish.
I don't know if there live any albinos in the wild (I expect there are a few as in several animals). but the gen must come from the wild. Think all our albinos are the the linebred fry from the first one(s) but I'd still say they are not human-made as the C.schultzei "black".

I recently found an adult xanthistic pike on the internet.
Brightly yellow but survived for years.


Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G925F met Tapatalk