Possible illness(es) freshwater angelfish

Hi all, it's been a while since I've been on the forums. I finally was able to get my 55 gallon set up, only took me like 5 months, lol.
I have only fw angels, 3 juveniles, and now 3 adults, 1 ivory mystery snail - around a quarter's size, and 2 very small nerite snails. (Though I can only find 1). The angels transferred over from a very established 39 gallon. I used the filters, water and decor in the new 55 to help establish it. It's been set up for about 6 months now. I have several pieces of driftwood and quite a few smaller live plants in the tank also. Amazon swords, java ferns, Ocelot swords & a couple of anubias, . Everything has been peachy, aside from typical struggles for dominance. Nothing too severe, some damaged fins here and there, little bit of lip damage here and there, but no serious wounds. Put some melafix & pimafix in the tank to see if it helped. And either it really did a good job of helping repair the damaged fins, or it was a coincidental occurrence. Had done this a couple of times, and it seemed to work each time. Two of the adult angels were a breeding pair, together from very young, now about 2 yrs old. Very prolific breeders that had finally gotten it right this time and had fry swimming. I had no idea any eggs survived this time until I happened to see the wigglers! There was quite a lot of aggression, obviously. They were being amazingly good parents, keeping the fry very near and under close watch, and everyone else away. I saw some damaged fins on all, from the fighting and stress. Mostly the pectoral, a tiny "tear" on "daddy's " dorsal, so again I tried the melafix and pimafix. Almost immediately everyone was at the top of the water struggling. Did a partial water change right away, seemed to fix the issue. The remaining fry were eaten while the parents were back and forth at the top. Went to sleep for about 4-5 hours, woke up to my "momma" fish nose down in a bottom corner, dead. Everyone else back at the top again. Did another partial, hooked up an air pump and two diffusers to get some oxygen exchange going, so far so good, everyone else is doing well. Except I've now noticed some strange white spots on everyone. Bigger spots on the larger, but still there on the smaller. Can someone please help identify what this may be so I can treat accordingly?!
I did just over 50% water change yesterday. I have had a diatom issue in the tank, but otherwise it's a healthy tank. I keep up with regular maintenance, test often, parameters stay really good. Ammo always 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0-10, has been as high as 30 (at which point another water change done). Ph is steady at 7.0. I do have hard water, but they've not seemed bothered by it. Gh 180-200-ish, kh is a tad low around 50. Temp stays a steady 78. Going to put up the best pics I have been able to take, and hope someone can help! Thank you in advance! I know it's a long post, but thought history may be a clue? I do think maybe some of what I am seeing could just be the coloring, esp on the gold koi, but there's definitely still something there. They do look better today than before I did the large water change. These are pics I took just now.

I don't want to guess as to the white patches, but i would think they may be due to the "fighting" you've seen. We always drag poor @Colin_T into these health issues, but he is more likely to know. So I'll leave that issue.

The reaction of the fish to the Melafix/Primafix is exactly what I witnessed when I once used one of these. Which is why I never use them. If there is a problem that can accurately be identified, and then only if whichever is the best and safest treatment.

The hard wat3r is probably not helping, but I wouldn't worry about that. Stability in parameters (GH, pH and temperature), and safe levels in conditions (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate), are key.

What are we meant to be looking at, the white patch on the fish or the thin white things on the glass?

Most of the marks on the fish look like scars from fighting.

The thin white things on the glass could be worms.

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The fish gasping at the surface after you added the medication was them suffering from an overdose of medication. A big water change (like you did) is the best remedy for this.

Thanks so much for the replies!
Yes the spots on the fish are what's concerning me. I had a feeling at least some was from the fighting. I just wanted to try and catch anything as early as possible, if of course there is something. I have been watching them Very closely thru the day, and it really looks like a lot of what I have seen is seemingly fading on all of them. The largest one, who has the really rough looking lip, also has the most concerning spot of all. Now that seems to be coming away from the body on the one side, and the two marks on the other side seem to have faded or lessened. The large marbled looking one had some spots where the tail meets the body that worried me, they have gone, as well as one of the two spots on his back. I will put up a couple more pics I just took.
As for the "white lines" on the glass, those are just some small bubbles from the output of the filter. They kept moving so much while I was trying to get the pics, and that was the best I could catch, unfortunate tank position.
The larger ones have been in my hard water for two + years now, and the smaller have for about 5 months or so. I slowly acclimated the young ones into the tank, drip method, just to be proactive making sure they were able to handle everything. Same when my adults were young and I first got them. I've not seen any difficulties at all, until the episode a couple of days ago when I added the "fixes". I'm still a bit perplexed as to how I overdosed the tank, I followed label dosages each time I used them. This was I think the fourth time using those, with no ill effects the first three times. It's not like they were back to back uses, and even when I did use them, I only used them two days the first time, and one day each subsequent use, not the 7 days it said to use them. And I've done probably two or three water changes in between uses, after the initial change when stopping use. Guaranteed to be the last time I use them though, Already been disposed of!!
I've not had any other colors other than my one black and the other three (now two) silver and black before, and the gold koi are colored so differently, in certain lighting and positions it looks like they've gone platinum along their sides just under their dorsals. Then they move ever so slightly and bang right back to the orange/gold color. I'm used to seeing the markings on my sliver/blacks fading at times and coming back, but that looks so very different to me. I do love the variations though.
I guess I just jumped the gun a bit. I am a very conscientious Mom, to all of my babies, be they human, dog, cat, fish, bird, and whatever else I can help and take care of. I tend to over worry about the critter babies especially since they can't just say "hey mom, I don't feel very well" with words like we humans do. And as I said, was trying to catch anything as early as possible for the best chance of success. I did just retest the tank and all is still just right there.
And believe it or not, the two pics of my black "daddy" angel were taken just a couple of minutes apart. Not real sure how to explain that one, he is the ONLY black I have, so there's no chance of confusion with another fish. Added these just so someone else could see what I'm seeing, it kind of amazed me!
Thank you all so much!! And if someone does happen to see anything of concern in the photos, please do let me know! But right now I feel a little silly looking at everyone in the tank and that I got worried over basically nothing it seems now. I keep learning more every day, with any luck that won't ever change!

The best treatment for minor wounds is clean water and maybe a bit of salt.

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Add some salt, (see directions below).

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SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

When you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

I think your white patches are war wounds, as long as your tank is healthy just let them heal on their own.

Colin_T said:

The best treatment for minor wounds is clean water and maybe a bit of salt.

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Add some salt, (see directions below).

-------------------
SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

When you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

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Thank you for this, I will make sure to get your instructions written down and keep with all of my tank supplies. That way I will always have it, and if for some reason someone else ever has to do that type of maintenance on my tank, or their own, they will have access also. ☺
I actually took one of those plain green scrubbing pads, no soap in it obviously, and really cleaned the tank glass, rinsing the scrubber in a small bucket of dechlorinated water after each pass up the glass, immedlately before I did the large water change yesterday. I will be sure to continue that each water change.
I have another question, but I will start a new post for that, as it has nothing to do with this particular topic.
Again, I thank you, and all who have given help and advice, it is so appreciated!!

itiwhetu said:

I think your white patches are war wounds, as long as your tank is healthy just let them heal on their own.

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Thank you, it really eases my mind!

Just a comment generally about Cichlids. Cichlids live and die fighting each other that is what they do, they are very adapt at healing their wounds, so don't panic when you see a missing scale or two.

itiwhetu said:

Just a comment generally about Cichlids. Cichlids live and die fighting each other that is what they do, they are very adapt at healing their wounds, so don't panic when you see a missing scale or two.

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I've known since I was young that Cichlids are aggressive, I guess because I've not previously had, nor been around, a tank with more than two, and/or only angels in the tank, I haven't seen this kind of "damage". I will say the aggression can be rather daunting and startling for one not used to it!!

You guys are awesome for putting up with us noobs, and patiently answering all the various questions we ask!!!!

Dragonswynter said:

I've known since I was young that Cichlids are aggressive, I guess because I've not previously had, nor been around, a tank with more than two, and/or only angels in the tank, I haven't seen this kind of "damage". I will say the aggression can be rather daunting and startling for one not used to it!!

You guys are awesome for putting up with us noobs, and patiently answering all the various questions we ask!!!!

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You are not noobs you are learning stuff in the very complicated world of fish.

Dragonswynter said:

I've known since I was young that Cichlids are aggressive, I guess because I've not previously had, nor been around, a tank with more than two, and/or only angels in the tank, I haven't seen this kind of "damage". I will say the aggression can be rather daunting and startling for one not used to it!!

You guys are awesome for putting up with us noobs, and patiently answering all the various questions we ask!!!!

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Something to keep in mind though...in the wild all this aggressive tendency plays out far better for the fish, because of the space. This does not exist in the aquarium, no matter how large a tank it may be; the normal hierarchy battles are much more devastating to the fish because they cannot escape them.

Not only is there the physical aspect, but fish communicate with chemical signals. Pheromones are released by and read by individual fish of a species; allomones are read by other species. So in the small confines of the aquarium, the fish are not only being exposed to the physical attribute of dominance, but they "read" this constantly even if there is no actual physical interaction. To say the least, this is highly stressful to the fish being targeted, and this causes them to weaken the longer it continues, and either contract other issues that they would otherwise be able to easily deal with, or if lucky to get past this they will have a shorter lifespan. Stress is directly responsible for about 90% of all disease issues in an aquarium.

Byron said:

Something to keep in mind though...in the wild all this aggressive tendency plays out far better for the fish, because of the space. This does not exist in the aquarium, no matter how large a tank it may be; the normal hierarchy battles are much more devastating to the fish because they cannot escape them.

Not only is there the physical aspect, but fish communicate with chemical signals. Pheromones are released by and read by individual fish of a species; allomones are read by other species. So in the small confines of the aquarium, the fish are not only being exposed to the physical attribute of dominance, but they "read" this constantly even if there is no actual physical interaction. To say the least, this is highly stressful to the fish being targeted, and this causes them to weaken the longer it continues, and either contract other issues that they would otherwise be able to easily deal with, or if lucky to get past this they will have a shorter lifespan. Stress is directly responsible for about 90% of all disease issues in an aquarium.

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Thank you for your reply. I totally understand all of that. I've been telling my husband the same thing about the stress and limited space. I've tried arranging things so there are breaks in sight lines, and more places to hide behind. But I've been seriously considering re-homing the largest, which is the aggressor. I was hoping that it would settle down and they'd work it out so I wouldn't have to part with any. Things are much calmer in there today, though I'm not sure it will stay that way. When the damage is healed, I'm going to talk with lfs and see if they will take the biggest one.
Thanks again for your reply! ☺