Angels

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Did you notice a temp. change in your aquairum when you did the water change? If the temp changes too much it will shock the fish and can kill them; frequently such death is not immediate but somewhat delayed. While ph change can be harmful it has to be pretty sudden and pretty extreme. I been pretty heavy handed with my aquairum this year (using ro water in aquariium with tap water for example) and really none of my fishes have reacted badly (i have wc b. cupido, wc discus, wc geo, ...); the discus are the most sensitive to changes and definitely show a deep hate for more than 1.5 degree change in temp during a water change. Truth be told the b. cupido and geo are pretty robust. I do have 14 angels with some krobia but they are overly robust and near adult size now so i can't really compare. Young fishes are more sensitve and delicate but quarter size actually have some decent age on them and not that fragile (dime size are a bit fragile); most of my fishes are dwarf cichild with about 2/3 in black water but i woudln't call them delicate or fragile as long as the water chemistry is pretty constant.
 
I'll come around to a couple of simple things I follow. No one else has to:
I would not buy a juvenile fish like a nickel sized angel. Let them get to 2 inches tail to head, at least. Why? Because to ship humanely, you have to empty the guts of the fish, or their poop will pollute the bag water. That means not feeding them for a day before shipping. A fish is its wildest period of growth will be hit hard by 2 or 3 days unfed in a bag. Older fish handle it as a matter of course.

I will order fish in winter, if I can get airport to airport or guaranteed 24 hour shipping. It's often better to wait until things warm up a bit. I prefer to wait til nights are at least 10 celsius.

We all learn our own ways, but it's better when they work.

When I buy fish at the local, small city pet store (he buys from Singapore), I expect 40% deaths. If I buy in a large city with less travel for the fish, that drops to 10-20%. When I have had fish shipped to my door, I have had losses. My next shipment, soon, will involve a long drive to an airport, but a shorter travel time for the fish. Those shipments have consistently been great.

I acclimate by opening the bags as soon as I am beside the tank, pouring the water into a bucket through a net and plopping the fish in fast. I started doing that in fish importing and the losses were minimal, even of fish that arrived in trouble. For importers, every dead fish is money lost.
 
Did you notice a temp. change in your aquairum when you did the water change? If the temp changes too much it will shock the fish and can kill them; frequently such death is not immediate but somewhat delayed. While ph change can be harmful it has to be pretty sudden and pretty extreme. I been pretty heavy handed with my aquairum this year (using ro water in aquariium with tap water for example) and really none of my fishes have reacted badly (i have wc b. cupido, wc discus, wc geo, ...); the discus are the most sensitive to changes and definitely show a deep hate for more than 1.5 degree change in temp during a water change. Truth be told the b. cupido and geo are pretty robust. I do have 14 angels with some krobia but they are overly robust and near adult size now so i can't really compare. Young fishes are more sensitve and delicate but quarter size actually have some decent age on them and not that fragile (dime size are a bit fragile); most of my fishes are dwarf cichild with about 2/3 in black water but i woudln't call them delicate or fragile as long as the water chemistry is pretty constant.
PH is steady. Water in the tans run at 76F and water we add is within a couple degrees of that one way or the other. We use a mix of rain and well water. Today and going forward we boil the rain water in my brew it then add the well water and cool. The brew pot has a very accurate digital thermometer.
 
I'll come around to a couple of simple things I follow. No one else has to:
I would not buy a juvenile fish like a nickel sized angel. Let them get to 2 inches tail to head, at least. Why? Because to ship humanely, you have to empty the guts of the fish, or their poop will pollute the bag water. That means not feeding them for a day before shipping. A fish is its wildest period of growth will be hit hard by 2 or 3 days unfed in a bag. Older fish handle it as a matter of course.

I will order fish in winter, if I can get airport to airport or guaranteed 24 hour shipping. It's often better to wait until things warm up a bit. I prefer to wait til nights are at least 10 celsius.

We all learn our own ways, but it's better when they work.

When I buy fish at the local, small city pet store (he buys from Singapore), I expect 40% deaths. If I buy in a large city with less travel for the fish, that drops to 10-20%. When I have had fish shipped to my door, I have had losses. My next shipment, soon, will involve a long drive to an airport, but a shorter travel time for the fish. Those shipments have consistently been great.

I acclimate by opening the bags as soon as I am beside the tank, pouring the water into a bucket through a net and plopping the fish in fast. I started doing that in fish importing and the losses were minimal, even of fish that arrived in trouble. For importers, every dead fish is money lost.
I doubt we will do mail order fish but who knows. My preference is to deal local and the place we toured last weekend was impressive. We were open about our experience and the clerks we spoke with were extremely patient and even suggested we bring water samples when purchasing fish. The bonus is they have a large pond business also.

We are going to have to adjust to the fact that when it comes to mortality fish are more like baby chicks than they are kittens. We always lost a few chicks each spring.
 
PH is steady. Water in the tans run at 76F and water we add is within a couple degrees of that one way or the other. We use a mix of rain and well water. Today and going forward we boil the rain water in my brew it then add the well water and cool. The brew pot has a very accurate digital thermometer.
76 is on the cool end for angels - i normally keep them 78-81 range. Generally young fishes need to be in the middle to upper range of their temp.
 
I'll come around to a couple of simple things I follow. No one else has to:
I would not buy a juvenile fish like a nickel sized angel. Let them get to 2 inches tail to head, at least. Why? Because to ship humanely, you have to empty the guts of the fish, or their poop will pollute the bag water. That means not feeding them for a day before shipping. A fish is its wildest period of growth will be hit hard by 2 or 3 days unfed in a bag. Older fish handle it as a matter of course.

I will order fish in winter, if I can get airport to airport or guaranteed 24 hour shipping. It's often better to wait until things warm up a bit. I prefer to wait til nights are at least 10 celsius.

We all learn our own ways, but it's better when they work.

When I buy fish at the local, small city pet store (he buys from Singapore), I expect 40% deaths. If I buy in a large city with less travel for the fish, that drops to 10-20%. When I have had fish shipped to my door, I have had losses. My next shipment, soon, will involve a long drive to an airport, but a shorter travel time for the fish. Those shipments have consistently been great.

I acclimate by opening the bags as soon as I am beside the tank, pouring the water into a bucket through a net and plopping the fish in fast. I started doing that in fish importing and the losses were minimal, even of fish that arrived in trouble. For importers, every dead fish is money lost.
I order dime size angels all the time from a seller on ebay (specific seller); he ships 8 to 12 fishes in a LARGE bag of water; never had one die. Yea there is some truth to what you say if the bag is small. Ship time is typically 2 to 3 days. I never buy fishes ('cept overnight from wetspot) during the winter.
 
I'll come around to a couple of simple things I follow. No one else has to:
I would not buy a juvenile fish like a nickel sized angel. Let them get to 2 inches tail to head, at least. Why? Because to ship humanely, you have to empty the guts of the fish, or their poop will pollute the bag water. That means not feeding them for a day before shipping. A fish is its wildest period of growth will be hit hard by 2 or 3 days unfed in a bag. Older fish handle it as a matter of course.

I will order fish in winter, if I can get airport to airport or guaranteed 24 hour shipping. It's often better to wait until things warm up a bit. I prefer to wait til nights are at least 10 celsius.

We all learn our own ways, but it's better when they work.

When I buy fish at the local, small city pet store (he buys from Singapore), I expect 40% deaths. If I buy in a large city with less travel for the fish, that drops to 10-20%. When I have had fish shipped to my door, I have had losses. My next shipment, soon, will involve a long drive to an airport, but a shorter travel time for the fish. Those shipments have consistently been great.

I acclimate by opening the bags as soon as I am beside the tank, pouring the water into a bucket through a net and plopping the fish in fast. I started doing that in fish importing and the losses were minimal, even of fish that arrived in trouble. For importers, every dead fish is money lost.
GaryE- I was curious about the size, but these folks seem to know their stuff, so I went with it. It was during warmer weather when I ordered them (last Fall).

Normally I would do the same with regard to getting them out of their water- I contacted the seller asking about it- especially when it took an extra day to get them. They said go ahead with their method (add fish & water to bucket, put a bit of ammonia blocker (or whatever you call it) and drip acclimate slowly). It ended up working well, but I was surprised.

Another weird thing- they instructed me not to feed the fish for 48 hours. I know they already had not fed them in prep for shipping, but had me wait another 48 hours prior to feeding. I think I waited more like 36 hours before I fed them LOL.

The instructions were not what I would have thought I would do (outside of the 2 week quarantine), but they worked and all of the fish lived, so it's hard to argue with success LOL.
 
@MuddyWaters I took a look at that Angelmania website . Certainly some beautiful fish . The link to the 2015 Amazonas article was an eye opener ! This guy really pumps out the Angelfish . Artificial hatching in gallon jars !
oh! I didn't see the article - will check it out. I don't want to pimp them too hard, but they were really good with me when I was acclimating those fish- I swear I emailed that guy Lee 20 times with panicky questions LOL. I think they know what they're doing. Also, they have a food that is 50% protein- all my fish love it like crazy.
 
oh! I didn't see the article - will check it out. I don't want to pimp them too hard, but they were really good with me when I was acclimating those fish- I swear I emailed that guy Lee 20 times with panicky questions LOL. I think they know what they're doing. Also, they have a food that is 50% protein- all my fish love it like crazy.
Definitely do read that Amazonas magazine article . His method of hatching baby brine shrimp is great . Lee Gordon has some unconventional methods but they do work . I like what he says about culling aggressively to eliminate fish with crooked and short fins . He certainly has an eye for quality fish . It’s nice to know that someone out there is guarding the hobby . His food does look good and he is right about getting some to feed the fish you get from him because they’re used to it .
 

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