Confusing Amonia Readings

[dazpanzan]

Hi everyone,

I'm Darren, brand new to the site, please bare with me, I have a problem in my tank and can't figure it out, so I'm going to give as much info as I can, I've been keeping fish for nearly a year. Recently-ish I had to transfer my fish from my 60 ltr tank over to a new 165ltr, the now ' binned cracked' small one had been running without fish for a month before I added 1 male betta, a week later I added 2 small Mollys and a week after that I added 4 Corydora Sterbai. They all stayed happily in that tank happily for a few months before it was cracked by children playing ball in the house...grrrr! Anyway, while sweating over the tank possibly breaking in half and my room being flooded out I managed to find an aquaone 850 for cheap.

I set the tank up, cleaned it out the correct way etc, filled it up with, say 70% the water from the old tank, transferred evrything over, filter, decorations fish etc and ran the small fluval 2+ filter from the now 'binned' small tank, transferred all except the Betta who is now in his own 5 gallon! The fish were fine, I used 250 ml of safestart just for good measure. This tank ran fine for just over a month n half, the readings were pretty normal for a new tank to start then after 8 weeks or so it levelled out to these -( api amonia and tetra 6 in 1 strip) amonia 0, nitrites 0-1 and nitrates 1-10 week from week.

I was under the impression these were pretty normal readings and assumed it safe to get new fish, I bought 3 T-Bar Cichlids, 1 more molly and 3 more Corydoras over the next few weeks, they were all introduced over time with the minimum of a week in between. I don't think this tank is over stocked, It looks almost empty with the small fish I think, All these fish are very small and all live very, very happily... and are still living happily now.....But!

Here's my problem....This bigger tank, in my opinion was cycled, or newly cycled but safe for fish, correct me if I'm mistaken and may god strike me down if I did something wrong. 4 weeks ago I went away for the week and asked the neighbour who is very trustworthy to pop in and feed them once or twice, this she did, she also performed a water change of about 30-40%. When doing my water test when I got back, the amonia was off the chart, so much my api test result was blue!!!...nitrites and nitrates are 0!!! but all the fish are quite happy, no stress, no deaths etc...all fine.
But I'm not, I'm going mad over this, I cant figure it out, the test kit is fine, not dud or out of date, Ive used it on a friends tank. following the shock of the strange test result I did one huge water change, 80% followed by daily 10% changes, I also used more safe start after the huge change as all I could think of was she washed my filter trays in 'new untreated water' and it killed my bacteria off but she swears she did not.

Today the amonia is still off the scale, nitrites and nitrates both 0, ph is about 6.8 on the strip, I'm doing gravel vacs and daily 10-20% water changes..... but the fish are all still fine and seem very very happy, I'm feeding once every other day. I do everything by the book. Im reluctant to use ammo lock as i don't want to halt any good bacteria growth that may be happening as the fish are all fine.

Please can someone tell me what the problem may be, I have no idea......may I also add that I use two filters on this tank, the fluval u4 and the trickle filter with bio noodles in the hood.

I don't know what to do, weather it will re-adjust itself or If I'm doing something or not doing something, Ive been testing every other day in between water changes and the test results are the same. Please help!

Thanks

 

[Wills]

Hi there welcome to the forum! Sounds like you had a close call with the smaller tank.

The test strips are known to be unreliable and I would recommend you get an API master test kit which is a series of small bottles that you add to a test tube of tank water these are one of the most reliable one to do so with.

If you are concerned about the health of your fish dont be afraid to do big water changes if its been like that for a while now it might be best. Do any of your fish do the following though, clamping fins, bottom sitting, gasping for air either in the water or at the surface?

The Tbar cichlids, a little concerned about these as when they hit sexual maturity if you have a male and a female in the group and they start breeding they will kill all your fish outright. Breeding Sajicas are a force to be reckoned with but non breeding ones fit into a community quite well so for that reason I would reccomend just keeping one male Sajica rather than the three.

Wills

 

[dazpanzan]

Hi, I've had a look and have ordered one of those test kits you recommended. The fish don't have any ill signs whatsoever, nothing, they're very happy looking fish, thats what the most confusing thing is. No burned gills or clamped fins, the only time they go to the surface is to feed on the blood worms that float. its so very confusing! I will do a big water change once more as advised, leave it for a day then carry on with daily 10-20% changes again and see where that leaves me.

The T-bars are great fish, I don't think they're in breeding mode just yet then as they all do great, they all swim together, dig a tremendous amount of pits in the gravel and spend time in the 'dungeon' together digging & spitting out gravel everywhere!...when its feeding time I shake a bottle of Tetra 'Prima Pellets' (they seem to like this more than anything) in front of the tank, its really is funny to watch, they line up with each other facing me, follow the tub with they're eyes and all come to the surface and snap them up when i put them in! very clever fish I think... there is one larger male for sure, a female with yellow fins and a smaller one I'm not sure of yet, I originally asked for 2 females and 1 male, turns out I think I only got the one female...I think! I can sex the 2 fine but the 3rd small one I mentioned has no humped head developing (male) or no yellow fin like the female....is there any other way of telling, I have a feeling its a smaller male though.

Thanks for the advice, will let you know how it goes. Someone suggested I may be having a mini cycle after the large water change. that would make sense if my theory is right about the filter trays being washed it 'untreated water'. With any luck i will start getting nitrite and nitrate readings soon after, I'm home for a few weeks now so will be able to keep well on top of it.

Cheers
Darren

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum Dazpanzan.
By transferring the filter from your old tank, you have in essence established a mature filter in your new tank. The water would not provide much help but the filter certainly would. The liquid type test kit is always far better than paper test strips but your fish may be fine living with that mature filter serving them.

 

[VaegaVic]

You say the neighbour was doing water changes? Did she/he dechlorinate the water before it was added to the tank? If not, it could have severely damaged your bacterial colony.

 

[dazpanzan]

Hi, they did treat the water, I know this as I left them a new bottle and enough had been used, I think they may have cleaned the filter trays in the hood in untreated water, it's the only reason I can think of, and have damaged it that way, what I can't get over is the stupidly high amonia reading and happy fish. I have had another filter running in the tank for a few weeks and they didn't touch that. I'm guessing it's been turned off maybe and thats messed up the colony, With any luck should start to settle down again Soon, I hope so anyway. Have not long performed another 80% change, the fish are still smiling and that's a relief. I just find it strange that the fish are showing zero signs of distress, absolutely nothing! And it's been just over a week! Strange! That must be the only drawback with keeping fish....going away and knowing they can be looked after by someone else. Updates to follow!
Thanks

 

[OldMan47]

If the filters were cleaned in the wrong fashion, much of your living biological filter may have been damaged. That may be the whole problem that you are seeing. Why not check with your neighbor on the method she used to clean the filter? It would certainly remove much of the speculation here and help us zero in on what your real problem may be. In the meantime, while you are trying to figure things out, don't forget to do the necessary huge water changes to pull your ammonia levels down.

 

[dazpanzan]

Hi,

I've today got to the bottom of the mystery, I was correct and she had 'swished' the filters around in untreated water...She now knows the correct way to do it, and that is when I'm away....leave it, lol! On the plus side I am now getting readings to suggest things are starting to 're boot'. I have drastically managed to reduce the amonia, applied safestart and extra new bio noodles and am glad I am home for a few weeks now as have started to get nitrite and nitrate readings so with that little extra bit of effort things should be going good.....I'm really at a loss to explain the health of my fish through this, just over a week at dangerously high readings and not one sign of ill health.

That has been the most confusing thing...the nitrite, nitrates reading were 0, amonia was off the scale, fish were fine.

All I can think of is that I caught it quick and the frequent water changes have kept things ticking over. I think I may look for someone who knows fish and who I can pay to check on things when I'm away next time. Since I started keeping fish I have not lost one fish, then one trip away and I started to think I was going to lose them all. Phew!

Thanks

 

[OldMan47]

When I find myself in a situation like yours, I do 90% daily water changes to hold levels down until the filter can recover. That will often happen in a week or less.

 

[Assaye]

Quite a scare you had!

Until your ammonia is regularly reading 0 again, do more than 10-20% water changes. I'm amazed that your fish are acting fine but with ammonia that high they won't be fine, if you see what I mean? A lot of the damage is internal and the fish may just not be feeling the effects yet.

Do at least one 80% water change a day until your ammonia is right back down. Test regularly, whenever you have a spare moment, to give youself a really good picture is what is happening in the tank and act on any ammonia elevations, even if they are small.

Ammo-lock should be fine to use. It will still show up as ammonia on tests but if you dose enough and keep up with daily water changes then any ammonia will be converted into a safer form that the bacteria can still use. If you want to use ammo-lock, I would do a water change morning and evening and dose ammo lock midday if you are around to do so.

I personally don't use ammo lock, though. Just good, old fashioned water changes!

 

[dazpanzan]

Hi, today I'm even more confused. With my new test kit, I'm showing 0 amonia, 0 nitrites and .5 nitrate...I have also found what I think are cichlid eggs in the 'dungeon'!!! What the hell has been going on! Has my previous test kit actually been faulty? It's seems to differ between my two tanks which lead me to believe no! Seriously, would that explain why all my fish are fine. This has been the strangest week of my new hobbie! Has this happened to anyone else? I spoke to my local fish keeper and he said he has heard of a few people who this has happened to. I have either managed to rectify the problem within these last week....or my test kits have indeed been the problem! In which case I 'chatted and persisted questioning' my neighbour who was indeed faultless!
I hope this never happens again because I am at a loss to explain it.

Thanks all, ... By the way, what I think are eggs are like mini orange balls stuck to the glass! She won't leave them! Will there be t bar fry in the way?
Darren!

 

[waterdrop]

I think its often very difficult to come to the correct conclusions about mini-cycle events. You may have had a bit of both problems, a bit of mini-cycling and some sort of problem with the older ammonia kit. You've done a good job investigating but I wouldn't overly concerned with the actions of the neighbor - this person might actually be a better person to call upon because of it. I never ask temporary keepers to change water or clean filters but instead concentrate on ways to ensure their feedings will be correctly light and that they will have instructions for the correct plant nutrients!

~~waterdrop~~