I am new to keeping fish. I am 3 week into the cycle process and my ammonia levels are off the chart over 5.0 my nitrate levels are fine and my ph is 6.0. On buying my tank from an aquarium where I live I told him I was new to all this and needed advice, he sold me the tank and told me to go home set it up and come back tomorrow for fish which I did. He told me nothing about the tank cycling process. He sold me 3 clown coaches 4 koi Angels, 2 Zebra Angels a Plec, 8 Neon Tetras and 2 Golden Gouramis. Apparently I have been told I should not have started with so many fish and definitely not clown coaches or Angels as these are sensitive fish. I have spent a fortune on ammonia digester and Ammo lock and the clear jelly balls to put in my filter.I have had to eventually take the fish back to the shop for him to look after as they started to suffer because of the ammonia levels despite water changes and all the stuff I have bought. I'm hoping someone can give me some grateful advice as I keep getting conflicting information from aquariums. Im feeding the fish once a day only and a little amount. I was feeding live blood worms as the aquariums told me this was better Now I'm being toold to feed flake food. I was told to stop water changes as it slows the cycling process and now another aquarium is telling I should be doing it it does not affect the cycling process.my ammonia has been sky high now for 6 days. I have 8 Neon Tetras and 2 Golden Gouramis in the tank at the moment and they seem fine funny enough. What do I need to do? Please help.
Conflicting Information About Tank Cycling
- Thread starter Alibobs
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Oh dear! Lfs not being particularly helpful at all. In fact your lfs has given you all the wrong advice!
Nearly everything they tell you is utter tosh! Just to sell you their products basically
If I were you , return all the fish and start doing a fish less cycle. Use the cycling a Tank link at top of forum page , you'll learn a lot reading that.
Forget about ammo lock and stuff like that, they only help short term, if at all!
Do a large water change to bring down ammonia levels and return or rehome fish and start fish less cycle. Getting bacteria starter will help, like Dr Tim's one and only is decent stuff, Tetra Safe Start is ok but can be hit or miss sometimes.
You have made the right step in asking this forum, we'll try and help you get back on the right track.
Nearly everything they tell you is utter tosh! Just to sell you their products basically
If I were you , return all the fish and start doing a fish less cycle. Use the cycling a Tank link at top of forum page , you'll learn a lot reading that.
Forget about ammo lock and stuff like that, they only help short term, if at all!
Do a large water change to bring down ammonia levels and return or rehome fish and start fish less cycle. Getting bacteria starter will help, like Dr Tim's one and only is decent stuff, Tetra Safe Start is ok but can be hit or miss sometimes.
You have made the right step in asking this forum, we'll try and help you get back on the right track.
ShinySideUp
Fish Herder
Ch4rlie is right and I'm surprised any of your fish are still alive.
Firstly if you can find another LFS and dump this one for good you would be doing yourself and any fish a big favour. Can you find somewhere appropriate for the fish you have as they will surely perish in your own tank? There are many places on this forum and others explaining the best way to cycle a tank and it is so easy but not if you have fish in.
Now here is a bit of contradictory info:
Your fish have survived so long because your pH is very low at 6.0. This low pH is keeping the ammonia (it stays as ammonium) from being as toxic as it could be but it is also slowing or even stopping your filter from growing sufficient bacteria that will dispose of the ammonia, for this your pH could do to be a little higher (not by so much though). If you raise your pH the ammonium will become fish-toxic so you are a bit caught between a rock and a hard place so you must rehome your fish.
Clown loaches are not suitable fish for a beginner. They have requirements as to water quality, diet and most especially, tank size. I have seven clown loaches but they are housed in a 700 litre, six foot long tank. They can grow to twelve inches long, some say sixteen inches, but probably not in captivity.
It is a shame you have been given such crappy advice as a beginner as it gives many good LFS's a bad name.
Also, how big is the tank they sold you so we can help you with stocking levels when the tank is cycled?
Firstly if you can find another LFS and dump this one for good you would be doing yourself and any fish a big favour. Can you find somewhere appropriate for the fish you have as they will surely perish in your own tank? There are many places on this forum and others explaining the best way to cycle a tank and it is so easy but not if you have fish in.
Now here is a bit of contradictory info:
Your fish have survived so long because your pH is very low at 6.0. This low pH is keeping the ammonia (it stays as ammonium) from being as toxic as it could be but it is also slowing or even stopping your filter from growing sufficient bacteria that will dispose of the ammonia, for this your pH could do to be a little higher (not by so much though). If you raise your pH the ammonium will become fish-toxic so you are a bit caught between a rock and a hard place so you must rehome your fish.
Clown loaches are not suitable fish for a beginner. They have requirements as to water quality, diet and most especially, tank size. I have seven clown loaches but they are housed in a 700 litre, six foot long tank. They can grow to twelve inches long, some say sixteen inches, but probably not in captivity.
It is a shame you have been given such crappy advice as a beginner as it gives many good LFS's a bad name.
Also, how big is the tank they sold you so we can help you with stocking levels when the tank is cycled?
How big is your tank? You should figure about an inch of fish per each gallon of water, understocking is better. You need to do your research and find out how large the fish will be when fully grown. Fish will not live long in 5ppm ammonia. You need to do a very large water change --probably 2 or 3 times to get the levels under .5 ppm. As suggested, it would be best to return the fish and do a fishless cycle. It may take a month or so but you won't risk the health of the fish. The guide for fishless cycling on the forum is excellent--I used it to cycle my tank and since stocked, all the fish are doing well.
ShinySideUp
Fish Herder
Perhaps not that bothered after all.
Thank you everyone for you advice. Sorry I've only just replied but I've been waiting to see if my ad gets posted apparently it has to be passed first by someone and I've only just noticed it
My tank is 240 litres I have 8 Neon Tetras and gouramis in it at the moment I have been doing water changes 10 per cent my ammonia level is coming down but very slowly. I'm using the tetra test kits it was blue which wasn't even on the chart. Now it is back in the green. I have taken the clown loach the pleco and the angel fish back to the shop where I was sold them. He is looking after them till my tank is ready. I have been told that gouramis are hardy fish and can withstand the cycle by 3 other aquarium shops. I am running round fish shops like a whirlwind for advice. I'm only Vedic them once a day and when I do a water change I use the gravel cleaner to keep the poop and waste food down. Is this correct what I'm doing. I also have a major problem with one of my gouramis as it is totally chasing the others about the tank and will not give them a minutiae peace. Has anyone got any advice on this problem too. Thank you again for all your posts of advice it is most helpfully.
My tank is 240 litres I have 8 Neon Tetras and gouramis in it at the moment I have been doing water changes 10 per cent my ammonia level is coming down but very slowly. I'm using the tetra test kits it was blue which wasn't even on the chart. Now it is back in the green. I have taken the clown loach the pleco and the angel fish back to the shop where I was sold them. He is looking after them till my tank is ready. I have been told that gouramis are hardy fish and can withstand the cycle by 3 other aquarium shops. I am running round fish shops like a whirlwind for advice. I'm only Vedic them once a day and when I do a water change I use the gravel cleaner to keep the poop and waste food down. Is this correct what I'm doing. I also have a major problem with one of my gouramis as it is totally chasing the others about the tank and will not give them a minutiae peace. Has anyone got any advice on this problem too. Thank you again for all your posts of advice it is most helpfully.
You need to bigger water changes than 10%, if your ammonia is 'sky high'.
Keep doing big water changes, until the ammonia gets to zero, ASAP; if that means 90%, or more than one change a day, then that's what has to be done.
Of course water changes slow down the cycle (it's one of the reasons we recommend fishless), but there is no other way when you have the welfare of the fish to consider.
Gold gouramis can be very aggressive, especially two males; do you know what sex they are?
Keep doing big water changes, until the ammonia gets to zero, ASAP; if that means 90%, or more than one change a day, then that's what has to be done.
Of course water changes slow down the cycle (it's one of the reasons we recommend fishless), but there is no other way when you have the welfare of the fish to consider.
Gold gouramis can be very aggressive, especially two males; do you know what sex they are?
Thankyou fluttermoth for your advice I will do a mega water change. My golden gouramis I asked a fish shop about them I even took them to the dhop for them to sex them one shop in bury said they didnt know they were notdure and another fish shop in bury said you can sex gouramis. Is it me or are these aquarium staff just under eduated in what they are selling (fish) . I was sold another 2 gouramis and was told that it can calm them down if iintroduce more to the tank now its chasing them around too. The only benefit is the one itwas bullying now has the courage to come out of hiding as it has others in the tank. Is it me is it justplaying but it does seem qggressive coz its chasing and butting the fish. What can I do? I just feel sorry for the fish.
Oops sorry meant to put fish shopin oldham said you can't sex gouramis
Sorry meant a shop in oldham said you cant sex gouramis
Oops sorry meant to put fish shopin oldham said you can't sex gouramis
Sorry meant a shop in oldham said you cant sex gouramis
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Yes, water changes will slow the cycling process. Gouramis are not particularly hardy fish re cycling. Healthy cardinals would be better than healthy Neons.
The ideal fish to cycle a tropical tank with are zebra danios or small barbs.
Ammonia comes in 2 forms NH3 and NH4. Hobby kits mostly measure both and tell you the Total Ammonia. NH3 is described as being 100 times more toxic than NH4. The only way to know how much of each may be in a tank one needs to know the pH and temperature of the water. the higher these are, the more NH3 (bad) ammonia is present.
The goal in a fishless cycle is to monitor NH3 and Total ammonia. The NH3 level becomes harmful at .05 ppm for most fish. Even the most sensitive fish like trout can handle .02 ppm.
What I advise folks who are dead set on doing fish in cycling is you not only need to know the above to know when to change water and by how much. When you report your test results here, we need the numbers not the colors, please. Are you using test strips? If so, you are likely better off with liquid kits.
Nitrite, which will be coming, can be handled with the addition of chloride which is 2/3 of plain old table salt. But the amount of chloride needed depends on the volume of water in the tank and the ppm of nitrite present. And the problem with the test kits, even your strips, is that nitrite can get higher than they measure and that means you will have to learn how to do diluted tests for nitrite because if it gets above about 16 ppm, it will harm the bacteria you are trying to grow.
In any case, you have to monitor fish for signs of distress and react accordingly no matter what the readings might say.
Hopefully the all sounds quite daunting and you will opt for the only two realistic solutions. One is to purchase enough of Dr Tim's One and Only, if you can find it, and get these needed bacteria into the tank ASAP. You can also locate sufficient cycled media, substrate, plants and decor from established tanks to accomplish the same thing. With this solution you are getting all, or close to all, the needed bacteria and adding it to the tank rather than growing it yourself. You need to know a few other fish keepers for this.
The other realistic option is to return the rest of the fish in the tank to the store to hold. then buy ammonia and cycle the tank w/o fish according to the directions here. You have a head start already, so if you choose this option, reduce the time between testing by 1 day from what the instructions say.
A fish in cycle done as I explained must be done right or fish will be harmed or killed. If you try doing it with lots and lots of water changes, that wont guarantee fish wont be harmed or killed either. And it will take a really long time compared to either alternative I have suggested.
I just read your post- please return those new fish ASAP
The ideal fish to cycle a tropical tank with are zebra danios or small barbs.
Ammonia comes in 2 forms NH3 and NH4. Hobby kits mostly measure both and tell you the Total Ammonia. NH3 is described as being 100 times more toxic than NH4. The only way to know how much of each may be in a tank one needs to know the pH and temperature of the water. the higher these are, the more NH3 (bad) ammonia is present.
The goal in a fishless cycle is to monitor NH3 and Total ammonia. The NH3 level becomes harmful at .05 ppm for most fish. Even the most sensitive fish like trout can handle .02 ppm.
What I advise folks who are dead set on doing fish in cycling is you not only need to know the above to know when to change water and by how much. When you report your test results here, we need the numbers not the colors, please. Are you using test strips? If so, you are likely better off with liquid kits.
Nitrite, which will be coming, can be handled with the addition of chloride which is 2/3 of plain old table salt. But the amount of chloride needed depends on the volume of water in the tank and the ppm of nitrite present. And the problem with the test kits, even your strips, is that nitrite can get higher than they measure and that means you will have to learn how to do diluted tests for nitrite because if it gets above about 16 ppm, it will harm the bacteria you are trying to grow.
In any case, you have to monitor fish for signs of distress and react accordingly no matter what the readings might say.
Hopefully the all sounds quite daunting and you will opt for the only two realistic solutions. One is to purchase enough of Dr Tim's One and Only, if you can find it, and get these needed bacteria into the tank ASAP. You can also locate sufficient cycled media, substrate, plants and decor from established tanks to accomplish the same thing. With this solution you are getting all, or close to all, the needed bacteria and adding it to the tank rather than growing it yourself. You need to know a few other fish keepers for this.
The other realistic option is to return the rest of the fish in the tank to the store to hold. then buy ammonia and cycle the tank w/o fish according to the directions here. You have a head start already, so if you choose this option, reduce the time between testing by 1 day from what the instructions say.
A fish in cycle done as I explained must be done right or fish will be harmed or killed. If you try doing it with lots and lots of water changes, that wont guarantee fish wont be harmed or killed either. And it will take a really long time compared to either alternative I have suggested.
I just read your post- please return those new fish ASAP
I'm using the tetra liquid kits my phone is 6.0 Nitrite has just risen today to 0.3 and my ammonia kit is the liquid tetra Kurt NH3/NH4 5.0 but like I said earlier it was blue then a green/blue then dark green now it is 5.0 green and it is coming down daily now as its getting lighter green each day I test it. My temperature is 73 degrees.
Sorry meant ph is 6.0. This predictive texting really frustrates me is keeps changing what I want to put.
Sorry meant ph is 6.0. This predictive texting really frustrates me is keeps changing what I want to put.
Two Tank Anim just seen it post about returning fish is this because of the tank cycling or the aggressive gourami? I only enlighten on advice from LES as I didn't see this post till tonight as I've been waiting for it to get listed and thought I'd get an email telling me it had but I didn't. Why are LFS giving me crap info. I thought they are supposed to care about the fish are they just interested in the money or just employing pro p me who know nothing about fish
Alibobs said:
Afraid quite a few LFS just basically tell you what you want to hear in order to sell you their fish and products.
Bad advice is fairly commonplace from LFS but you have learned a valuable lesson here, do not trust all advice given to you by LFS or staff, it is your prerogative to do own research and homework about tanks, fish, plant and all the rest of it.
And of course asking on this forum is pretty good idea too, a lot of experienced and knowledgeable people on this forum, so you will be given decent advice should you ever get stuck, only need to post a question and we'll answer your questions to the best of our abilities.
Sad but true. I've fallen into the LFS trap too when I first started out. Luckily was just plants at the time, but still really annoyed me!
Bear in mind, not ALL LFS or LFS staff are bad, just some of them really. But is fairly common.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Because of Cycling.
Your pH could be under 6? I think the kit stops there?
If it is at 6.0 that is why your fish are not all in the great beyond with ammonia down to 5.0 and dropping. But, as nitrite goes under 6.0 pH it starts to become more toxic. Please reread my post above about the two best things to do. Try whichever one you can put in motion in the next 48 hours. Until then you can do 25% water changes daily.
And raise the temp for the fish you have until you move them out or add sufficient bacteria, its too cool. Head to 78F.
Yes, most stores will sell you as much as they can.
You have no reason not to buy/add bacteria or else to rehome the fish and use ammonia to get your tank cycled. If you wish to try to continue with a fish in cycle, I prefer you get advice from somebody else as I have hit the point of not being willing to help new fish keepers to follow a course of action likely to harm or kill fish if they make any mistakes. Especially when they have a viable alternative.
Your pH could be under 6? I think the kit stops there?
If it is at 6.0 that is why your fish are not all in the great beyond with ammonia down to 5.0 and dropping. But, as nitrite goes under 6.0 pH it starts to become more toxic. Please reread my post above about the two best things to do. Try whichever one you can put in motion in the next 48 hours. Until then you can do 25% water changes daily.
And raise the temp for the fish you have until you move them out or add sufficient bacteria, its too cool. Head to 78F.
Yes, most stores will sell you as much as they can.
You have no reason not to buy/add bacteria or else to rehome the fish and use ammonia to get your tank cycled. If you wish to try to continue with a fish in cycle, I prefer you get advice from somebody else as I have hit the point of not being willing to help new fish keepers to follow a course of action likely to harm or kill fish if they make any mistakes. Especially when they have a viable alternative.
Thank you Ch4rlie I think your right about the LFS staff. Do you know anything about fish aggression as I'm having problems with a golden gourami. Its chasing the other one and butting it . The other gourami went in hiding and wouldn't come out. I tried to get them sexed but one LEG said they couldn't tell and the other OF A said u can't tell sex of gouramis. I thought my problem may be 2 males. TheLMA told me to buy a complete and now gourami is terrorising them all. Do u have any ideas as in desperate for advice.
Thank you Two Tank Anim I will 're look at it post
I will get some Dr timms one and only tomorrow thank you
Thank you Two Tank Anim I will 're look at it post
I will get some Dr timms one and only tomorrow thank you
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