NottsFishy
Fishaholic
Hey guys i have heard all about clove oil and its sues on fish with no chance of survival but i was wondering how is it actually used ?
Clove Oil
- Thread starter NottsFishy
- Start date
Truck
UKAPS
dont use it its cruel for euthanasia but some vets use it as a mild sedative but there is no need
bae1994
Fact. Bears eat beets. Bears.Beets.Battlestar
How is it cruel? I have used it to sedate a fish before, he went under almost immediately.
Truck
UKAPS
not for sedative purposes i was on about for carrying out euthanasia, as it isnt instant and the fishes brain still functions for a while.
Oh I see...
Written by stealhealr.
Post #18
"Strength and Honor" Nano Reef Moderator
Group: Moderators
Posts: 4701
Joined: 28-December 04
From: Long Island, NY
Member No.: 10772
This is what I choose to do with my fish and my comments are only placed here as opinion. This is a heated topic. I choose based on my knowledge from my training:
Oil of cloves is a topical anethestic and was used in the past to treat toothaches. Lidocaine (like at the dentist's office is a topical anesthetic as well). When we operate on people we really want to achieve 2 things, analgesia and anesthesia, that is, relief of pain and unconsciousness. IMO, when a fish is immersed in oil of cloves, it is essentially 'topically anesthetized', paralyzed, but, I am NOT convinced that the fish is unconscious.....none of us will really know for sure. We don't know if the oil of cloves causes stinging to the mucus membranes, eyes, etc on initial contact nor if the fish is motionless, painless but aware.
Extreme cold is an anesthetic. When applied to skin, you can actually cut the skin and feel no pain. Cold also can cause rapid unconsciousness. In fact, hypothermia is reported to cause a state of euphoria and clouding of consciousness. Fish, at least most of the types that we keep (tropical), are extremely small and rapid immersion in extreme cold water, in my opinion, causes rapid pain relief and rapid unconsciousness. I have never seen any of my fish shows signs of what I consider suffering. They stop moving immediately and appear lifeless. Some have stated that since fish are ectothermic, this doesn't apply....perhaps in cold water fish I would agree.
I choose to euthanize my fish this way, rather than oil of cloves. One must either make an educated decision for themselves, or, choose what is currently accepted by the masses as what is humane.
Added: although I would never use blunt force to euthanize my fish, nor advocate it, one fact is for sure: death is instantaneous
Post #18
"Strength and Honor" Nano Reef Moderator
Group: Moderators
Posts: 4701
Joined: 28-December 04
From: Long Island, NY
Member No.: 10772
This is what I choose to do with my fish and my comments are only placed here as opinion. This is a heated topic. I choose based on my knowledge from my training:
Oil of cloves is a topical anethestic and was used in the past to treat toothaches. Lidocaine (like at the dentist's office is a topical anesthetic as well). When we operate on people we really want to achieve 2 things, analgesia and anesthesia, that is, relief of pain and unconsciousness. IMO, when a fish is immersed in oil of cloves, it is essentially 'topically anesthetized', paralyzed, but, I am NOT convinced that the fish is unconscious.....none of us will really know for sure. We don't know if the oil of cloves causes stinging to the mucus membranes, eyes, etc on initial contact nor if the fish is motionless, painless but aware.
Extreme cold is an anesthetic. When applied to skin, you can actually cut the skin and feel no pain. Cold also can cause rapid unconsciousness. In fact, hypothermia is reported to cause a state of euphoria and clouding of consciousness. Fish, at least most of the types that we keep (tropical), are extremely small and rapid immersion in extreme cold water, in my opinion, causes rapid pain relief and rapid unconsciousness. I have never seen any of my fish shows signs of what I consider suffering. They stop moving immediately and appear lifeless. Some have stated that since fish are ectothermic, this doesn't apply....perhaps in cold water fish I would agree.
I choose to euthanize my fish this way, rather than oil of cloves. One must either make an educated decision for themselves, or, choose what is currently accepted by the masses as what is humane.
Added: although I would never use blunt force to euthanize my fish, nor advocate it, one fact is for sure: death is instantaneous
Truck
UKAPS
the ice method is a scientifically proved way of euthanising fish...although saying that i would cut the spinal chord and pith the brain
suggest you do a lot more research before answering a question like that.... 
Clove oil is an anaesthetic, and just like most puts the fish "to sleep". Prolonged use or suitable overdose puts it to sleep and it never wakes up, no pain or suffering... same effect as any suitable anaesthetic on any animal.....dog, fish, elephant, human....
In actual use it is no different to using MS222 (tricane) which is what a vet would probably use ( I don't use 222 any more as you cannot get it over the counter since the law changed a couple of years ago). Clove oil is used in many Koi medications for sedating or calming fish before treatment , moving etc.
Having used both I can report that the only real difference in practical terms is love oil pongs a bit.
Clove oil is an anaesthetic, and just like most puts the fish "to sleep". Prolonged use or suitable overdose puts it to sleep and it never wakes up, no pain or suffering... same effect as any suitable anaesthetic on any animal.....dog, fish, elephant, human....
In actual use it is no different to using MS222 (tricane) which is what a vet would probably use ( I don't use 222 any more as you cannot get it over the counter since the law changed a couple of years ago). Clove oil is used in many Koi medications for sedating or calming fish before treatment , moving etc.
Having used both I can report that the only real difference in practical terms is love oil pongs a bit.
Truck
UKAPS
i would use the ice method on bigger fish, because it has been scientifically proven to be humane.
and the use of clove oil...how do you know there is no gill irritation or anything like that? no body knows and i would rather know that i can use a method which is instant and 100% guaranteed painless.
Truck
UKAPS
thats interesting, probably the best method for cold water would be a severed spinal chord. if you cant do it yourself your local vet will do it
freezing is not the way to euthanasia fish, read the above post; Koi keepers use it on fish worth more than I earn in a year... and I earn more than the national average.... and they use it to sedate.... now I think they probably would know about any potential problems?
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