When to consider euthanasia?

[Roewooden2 2]

Hey there, folks. Hate for this to be my first post on here, but I see that MyAquariumClub is gone now (which is crazy for me to have to believe now.)

I somewhat recently bought a betta from Petco to try to give a chance at healing. Well. It's only been four days (got him on the 21st,) but I'm fearing there may not be much of a point to me thinking I can actually rehabilitate him. His spine is either broken or deformed, he can't much swim off the ground for more than air and... I guess that's it, but isn't that kind of just enough to determine that he doesn't have much "quality" to his body's living conditions? Like isn't it just cruelty to keep a fish that can't swim like a normal fish alive? I know about the clove oil method, I've had to do it in the past for bettas in other poor situations, but I've never dealt with a sickly fish that has such a will to live and be happy / friendly (I cry every time he comes up to the glass to say hi, because most times he just hangs out by his heater for extra warmth.) I guess my other fear is that he may be in pain and there's no real way for me to confirm that suspicion because at the end of the day, he's a fish. He's not going to show me that he's in pain, right? I've seen sickly bettas act depressed, but never any in any pain (in my eyes.)

Does anyone have any advice? Or what would you do in this situation, keep him alive in these conditions (I would get him a filter of some kind, I think, I just don't know how I would do it when the water level should, ideally, be kept low for him. So there comes my "is it even practical to keep him alive" on top of the already "is it human to keep him alive." I do daily water changes and have been using aquarium salt to treat the bacterial / fungal infection going over his eye / eyes. Seems to have gotten better, but I'll still be adding that to his fresh water for a bit. Put in the almond leaves today, so we'll see if that helps relax him any (I do have relatively hard water now.)

Any and all help, suggestions, or advice is very much welcome and very much appreciated. Please don't refrain from being honest. But here's the little guy I've lovingly named Romero (after Sheriff Alex Romero from Bates Motel,) or Romie. First video was taken on his first day with me, second video is from today.

 

[GaryE18 16]

The never to be resolved debate is whether buying a Betta with either a severe injury or more likely tuberculosis is an act of kindness or folly. Does it support the store selling sick fish? Does it simply introduce a disease into your tank?

That fish isn't going to get better, and I would strip and clean the tank, and possibly get rid of all organic things in there while you're doing it. If I had an open cut on my hands, I would wear gloves. I would disinfect my hands at the end of the sad process. If I see any possible signs of Mycobacteriosis (fish tb) in a fish I've bought, I euthanize it immediately. It's not a pathogen to play with. It can technically linger and shorten the lives of future fish. You don't have to go scorch and burn on the tank, because without an autopsy, you can't be 100% certain that's the cause. But given the prevalence of tb in fancy Betta splendens now, you have played with fire.

You're very kind, but the corporation isn't. It's just numbers to them, and if Bettas reared in tb spreading conditions are both cheaper and still popular for buyers, it's a win win for them. They have no incentive to work with suppliers who charge them a little more because they themselves spend a little more on raising healthier fish. The Betta dies young and the hobbyist either buys/'rescues' a new, short lived sick one, the store gets a race to the bottom cheap Betta, and they get a nicer markup. They can churn out sick Bettas for rescue buyers as much as they want to. There should be no market for them, to force the pet corporations to clean up their act.

 

[Back in the fold14 11]

Welcome to The Great TFF Forum . Too bad about that Betta . Every time I get a new Betta it’s always a PetsMart rescue . I’ve been lucky and get “ okay “ ones . I’m not a fan of euthanasia . Whether it’s right or whether it’s wrong I let all my fish die a natural death on their own . That’s just me .

 

[GaryE18 16]

Welcome to The Great TFF Forum . Too bad about that Betta . Every time I get a new Betta it’s always a PetsMart rescue . I’ve been lucky and get “ okay “ ones . I’m not a fan of euthanasia . Whether it’s right or whether it’s wrong I let all my fish die a natural death on their own . That’s just me .

The best way to avoid the ugly and distressing question of euthanasia is to buy quality fish. The problem if it is Mycobacter (and it too often is) is that upon death, the cysts holding the deadly bacteria under control burst and the pathogens rush out. They can survive dryness and technically, can infect new fish exposed to them. Odds are, new fish have already met up with them, but if there is a risk with a natural death from a farm infected fish.

A few bacteria shed by a dying fish are different from a wave of bacteria from a dead one.

 

[bgarthe58 75]

Welcome to TFF…..sorry it’s under such sad circumstances.

Yes, the above comments regarding bacterial issues continuing after that Betta is gone warrants attention for sure.

Sadly, imho, euthanasia is indeed the right thing to do after having seen your vids. You care…and that’s good. A properly carried out “put down” will end the fish suffering. Think of it like this…..you are in charge of that life form. You take as good a care of it as possible, do your best, research options, and if all that fails to fix it, gently end its misery. It is hard to do, has feelings of guilt associated with it, but it is the right thing to do. No animal (and I have had many), including my most dearly loved dogs, will suffer under my watch.

Lastly……bringing home/buying an obviously sick/deformed/badly injured fish seems like the decent/compassionate thing to do and I fully understand your thinking behind it. The sad truth, however, is that THE only way this sort of thing is going to get fixed is via the sellers losing money due to a lack of sales or losing money due to death of items for sale. It sounds callous of me, but 99% of the time regarding improving pet sale conditions involves the thing called making $. Imo, buying such fish encourages more of the same……Stores thinking……hey, if we still make $ selling such poorly cared for fish, why change or improve conditions….the bucks are still rolling in. Sorry about my rant, but it is posted with care and appreciation for a person like you who cares and wants to do the right thing.

 

[Roewooden2 2]

The never to be resolved debate is whether buying a Betta with either a severe injury or more likely tuberculosis is an act of kindness or folly. Does it support the store selling sick fish? Does it simply introduce a disease into your tank?

That fish isn't going to get better, and I would strip and clean the tank, and possibly get rid of all organic things in there while you're doing it. If I had an open cut on my hands, I would wear gloves. I would disinfect my hands at the end of the sad process. If I see any possible signs of Mycobacteriosis (fish tb) in a fish I've bought, I euthanize it immediately. It's not a pathogen to play with. It can technically linger and shorten the lives of future fish. You don't have to go scorch and burn on the tank, because without an autopsy, you can't be 100% certain that's the cause. But given the prevalence of tb in fancy Betta splendens now, you have played with fire.

You're very kind, but the corporation isn't. It's just numbers to them, and if Bettas reared in tb spreading conditions are both cheaper and still popular for buyers, it's a win win for them. They have no incentive to work with suppliers who charge them a little more because they themselves spend a little more on raising healthier fish. The Betta dies young and the hobbyist either buys/'rescues' a new, short lived sick one, the store gets a race to the bottom cheap Betta, and they get a nicer markup. They can churn out sick Bettas for rescue buyers as much as they want to. There should be no market for them, to force the pet corporations to clean up their act.

Huh. I've never heard of tuberculosis in (betta) fish. Would have imagined that anything's possible, but I've never heard of anyone diagnosing it (not to say this is a diagnosis.) But good to know, anyway, since the tank he's in was originally supposed to go to a female betta that is currently residing in my wife's snail tank. I'd like to say that he is making progress as the days go by, far more so than when he was at the store; as I had been watching him for two weeks on and off (I went there on the 1st to get my grandmother's betta and saw Romero, feeling somewhat drawn to him myself.)

As for the corporation thing, I understand where you're coming from. The only reason why I (was able to get him) is because the manager dropped him from $25 to $5 upon inspecting him with me. I thought, "might as well try" and here we are today. Which, I don't regret thinking or doing, as at the end of the die I would rather he die in comfort than a cold cup.

So, in that same sense, euthanasia is still a high possibility in my mind.

 

[Roewooden2 2]

Welcome to The Great TFF Forum . Too bad about that Betta . Every time I get a new Betta it’s always a PetsMart rescue . I’ve been lucky and get “ okay “ ones . I’m not a fan of euthanasia . Whether it’s right or whether it’s wrong I let all my fish die a natural death on their own . That’s just me .

Thank you, good (enough, considering the circumstances) to be here!

Yes, Petsmart bettas are kept in horrible conditions. This actually reminded me to make a report to / email corporate on this one specific location. I prefer Petco, but as someone with pet rats and not enough money to buy their food in bulk right now... I'm kind of forced to go into Petsmarts semi regularly (Petco doesn't sell Oxbow rat food.)

"Whether it’s right or whether it’s wrong I let all my fish die a natural death on their own." I think that speaks to me, in some ways. I'm not exactly let to believe that what happened to him was due to any disease or infection, but of course I can't be certain. I might just see how he does in higher water despite having him in a shallow tank.

 

[Roewooden2 2]

Welcome to TFF…..sorry it’s under such sad circumstances.

Yes, the above comments regarding bacterial issues continuing after that Betta is gone warrants attention for sure.

Sadly, imho, euthanasia is indeed the right thing to do after having seen your vids. You care…and that’s good. A properly carried out “put down” will end the fish suffering. Think of it like this…..you are in charge of that life form. You take as good a care of it as possible, do your best, research options, and if all that fails to fix it, gently end its misery. It is hard to do, has feelings of guilt associated with it, but it is the right thing to do. No animal (and I have had many), including my most dearly loved dogs, will suffer under my watch.

Lastly……bringing home/buying an obviously sick/deformed/badly injured fish seems like the decent/compassionate thing to do and I fully understand your thinking behind it. The sad truth, however, is that THE only way this sort of thing is going to get fixed is via the sellers losing money due to a lack of sales or losing money due to death of items for sale. It sounds callous of me, but 99% of the time regarding improving pet sale conditions involves the thing called making $. Imo, buying such fish encourages more of the same……Stores thinking……hey, if we still make $ selling such poorly cared for fish, why change or improve conditions….the bucks are still rolling in. Sorry about my rant, but it is posted with care and appreciation for a person like you who cares and wants to do the right thing.

I appreciate the sentiments alongside the way of laying it down easy. Like I said in one of the replies, I was watching him at the store since the first of the month since they kept saying that he wasn't responding to any treatments done in the back. In my mind, I knew he wasn't going to heal from the fin rot, cloudy eyes (bacterial / fungal infection of some kind) and depression while in a death (cold) cup. Having him dropped from $25 to $5 also helped seal the deal, since I won't lose out on much if I absolutely should be putting him to sleep. Is clove oil still the best method, do you know??

 

[gwand57 174]

I appreciate the sentiments alongside the way of laying it down easy. Like I said in one of the replies, I was watching him at the store since the first of the month since they kept saying that he wasn't responding to any treatments done in the back. In my mind, I knew he wasn't going to heal from the fin rot, cloudy eyes (bacterial / fungal infection of some kind) and depression while in a death (cold) cup. Having him dropped from $25 to $5 also helped seal the deal, since I won't lose out on much if I absolutely should be putting him to sleep. Is clove oil still the best method, do you know??

Yes. Clove oil is the best way. Very humane.

 

[GaryE18 16]

There's a myth floating around that Bettas don't get TB. I know importers that won't open the bags they come in and send them unopened to the stores to avoid contamination. They are fearless sorts with other fish. I have also seen characteristic lesions on a lot of Betta splendens. We used to be told they were cancer prone to explain the lesions.

 

[Roewooden2 2]

So. Update. He's up and doing just about anything a healthy / normal betta would do (while still remaining conscious of that bad spine) these days. I got him some neocaridina's to help keep him company / mentally stimulated, and they all seem to be doing great thus far. I'll upload another YouTube link once the tank gets cleaned up, as it's still bare bottom after upgrading his / their tank.

 

[Roewooden2 2]

Forgot to mention that I also got another (and final, as I am now at zero empty tanks) Petco betta (this time voided) to me. He's a tiny little shrimp of one of those "alien" bettas, and he's so easily stressed out (heavily evident stripes, loss of color, labored breathing after any and all disturbances, etc.) I thought I was going to have to euthanize him for that and that alone, but I put him in the heavily planted bladder snail tank and he seems to be doing MUCH better. Still got that same sort of spine issue, but he's otherwise doing well and enjoying the new food varieties suited for him and his tiny, tiny little mouth.

 

[bgarthe58 75]

Happy you’re happy.

 

[Back in the fold14 11]

Forgot to mention that I also got another (and final, as I am now at zero empty tanks) Petco betta (this time voided) to me. He's a tiny little shrimp of one of those "alien" bettas, and he's so easily stressed out (heavily evident stripes, loss of color, labored breathing after any and all disturbances, etc.) I thought I was going to have to euthanize him for that and that alone, but I put him in the heavily planted bladder snail tank and he seems to be doing MUCH better. Still got that same sort of spine issue, but he's otherwise doing well and enjoying the new food varieties suited for him and his tiny, tiny little mouth.

I’m a sucker for PetSmart rescue Betta’s too . I’ve done okay with them too . Getting into a warm aquarium does wonders for them and something else helps too . I make sure the top is sealed as tightly as I can get it . Their being able to breathe warm , humid air is appreciated by them .

 

[Bling1]

So these sick fish DO have a purpose, they are for those people who simply crave to HELP pathetic fish. Funny how attached we can get to the most needy of our pets.