Chicken Or The Egg....

[Rorie]

I have my tank cycling at the moment with ammonia, and i was wondering, do i add fish first, or plants, or both at the same time?

I have heard people say plants first, but from what i can see, that will only be delaying the time that i put in fish, and hence depriving my filter of ammonia.

If i put in fish first, i guess i cant drain the tank quite as much when trying to plant it?

So, what comes first, plants or fish?

 

[fluttermoth]

Once your tank has cycled, add the palnts but keep using the ammonia to stop the bacteria dying off.

This gives the plants a chance to root in for a bit before the fish go in, and also gives you a chance to have your arm in to replant anything that decides it wants to float off and tweak your aquascaping without worrying about upsetting your fish, which prefer to have a few days to settle

 

[Rorie]

Once your tank has cycled, add the palnts but keep using the ammonia to stop the bacteria dying off.

This gives the plants a chance to root in for a bit before the fish go in, and also gives you a chance to have your arm in to replant anything that decides it wants to float off and tweak your aquascaping without worrying about upsetting your fish, which prefer to have a few days to settle

I guess my only question with that is how will the plants react to the mass of ammonia....but i gather it would theoretically be the same amount as when the tank is fully stocked?

How long after the plants would you leave it before adding the fish?

Thanks

 

[fluttermoth]

Well; actually the level of ammonia during the average fishless cycle is way higher than the levels would be in a normally stocked tank. Ammonia doesn't affect plants in the same way if fish though, so it won't bother them.

I'd leave it a week or so (but I always spend the first week or two with a new tank fiddling about with the the placing of things ). You might be able to get it right quicker than that, but a week is long enough for the plants to get settled in.

 

[Curiosity101]

High ammonia can very often lead to plants 'melting'... However as it's at the end of the cycle the plants wont be being exposed to high ammonia for long so should be able to get actively growing before you put the fish in (as fluttermouth said). But... the melting problem is more likely than in a stable fully cycled tank where the ammonia and bacteria are in balance.

Personally I would put a few plants in at the same time as the fish, then wait for things to settle, and a couple of weeks later add more plants. Thing is you can sometimes get high die off, for example if the shop buys in plants from abroad they will often be in emersed forms, so all the leaves need to be shed before they can actively grow. So if you shove a whole load of plants in in one go you could end up with a large ammonia spike (unless you're very dilligent at removing leaves that are beginning to yellow/be shed.

Hence, add fish and plants together, but don't add too many plants in one go.

 

[Rorie]

thanks for the replies.

I think i will plant first with at least some plants, as i have no idea how many i will need yet!

Just out of interest, what fish are in both of your profile pics? I like the look of them. I am looking for a centre piece for my tank which will have cardinal tetras, snowball plec, corrys and shrimp. Will either of them be ok with what i want? How big do they get?

 

[Curiosity101]

Fluttermoths is a german blue ram, better if you have softer water or can get them locally bred so they're used to the water. And tend to need higher temps around 28-30C to really thrive. (Although I'm sure fluttermoth will give you the exact condition theirs are in )

And mine a male bolivian ram. Generally alot more forgiving with regards to pH and prefer a temp from 24-27. They're normally peaceful towards all but other small-medium sized cichlids. And even then they're not classed as agressive as they don't tend to actively pursue fish.

 

[Rorie]

Fluttermoths is a german blue ram, better if you have softer water or can get them locally bred so they're used to the water. And tend to need higher temps around 28-30C to really thrive. (Although I'm sure fluttermoth will give you the exact condition theirs are in )

And mine a male bolivian ram. Generally alot more forgiving with regards to pH and prefer a temp from 24-27. They're normally peaceful towards all but other small-medium sized cichlids. And even then they're not classed as agressive as they don't tend to actively pursue fish.

I guess the bolivian ram is more suitable WRT temperature then. How big do they get? are they solitary, or do they prefer pairs, groups?

I also like the looks of some Apistos. what like are they?

 

[fluttermoth]

Fluttermoths is a german blue ram, better if you have softer water or can get them locally bred so they're used to the water. And tend to need higher temps around 28-30C to really thrive. (Although I'm sure fluttermoth will give you the exact condition theirs are in )

Yes; though pH is often said to be vital to GBRs it's really not so much the pH as the softness and they do need very clean and warm water. I keep mine in a mix of 1/3 tap and 2/3 filtered rain water at 82°C and do my level best to keep the nitrates under 20ppm. I'm convinced that it's a mixture of cold water and high nitrates that kill most rams in 'normal' tanks. They often appear to be doing well and then suddenly die off after a couple of months or so.

The Bolivians are slightly less colourful but much more hardy and are an equally personable little fish; full of character and a little more forgiving of water quality

 

[fluttermoth]

Bolivian rams grow to 3 or 4 inches in length and do best in small groups of one male and two or three females, but they're really difficult to sex, so most people buy 4 or 5 and let them pair themselves off. If you end up with more than one male, there maybe a bit of scrapping and lip locking, but there's usually no damage done (I say usually, they are cichlids, so you never can tell!)

Apistogrammas are another family of dwarf cichlids; most are easy to care for and peaceful and make great additions to community tanks, but you will need to check up on the individual species

 

[Curiosity101]

Fluttermoth is right. I got my group of 4, attempting to sex them in the store I was pretty sure I had 1 male, 2 females and 1 unsure. They've turned into 2 males and 2 female. I had plenty of room in my 150l and as they were a group they all got on relatively well. Eventually two formed a pair and so they're now upstairs with me in a 60l where they 'seem' much happier as they no longer have to remove the other rams from their 'territory'.

Personally I love all the rams, but have stuck to bolivians as they were the first I ever had and they're just adorable. Definitely not as colourful as GBR's though

 

[Rorie]

Thats great, thanks!

Are there different types of bolivian rams? I just did a quick google search and found a few colour variations.

 

[Curiosity101]

I wasn't aware there were any colour variants of bolivians.

Perhaps you're seeing colour variations on the GBR's? They come in wild type, gold and electric blue.

You can also get 'balloon' rams, but I'd steer clear. These have been line bred to have a really un natural body shape which often means they suffer from swim bladder issues more than naturally shaped fish. Personally not a fan, but just from a lifespan/trouble sense I'd just not bother with them.