Bio Spira

andywg

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Thanks for posting that helpful information, TigerIssey. It's too bad you can't get the regular Bio-Spira any more. That explains why there isn't much mention of it lately.

That's because the person who originally published the research showing Nitrospira spp now seems to be working on his own and selling a very similar product under the name of Dr Tim's One and Only.

I don't think Soll bactinettes are available in the US. :/

Given that it contains Nitrobacter spp rather than Nitrospira spp this is not the worst news.
 

pica_nuttalli

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Is there a shelf live for this product...and if so...do you think it is longer than 3 years?

Since the point of refrigerating the bacteria is to slow its metabolism and prolong the length of time it can live without fresh food or oxygen, I'm sure that there is a shelf life for this product--and that it is considerably less than 3 years.

You also can't discount the idea that it might be the newer version, but the LFS didn't stop keeping it in a refrigerator for some reason.
 

TigerIssey

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You also can't discount the idea that it might be the newer version, but the LFS didn't stop keeping it in a refrigerator for some reason

If you click on this link below, he top packaging for marine fish is the old packaging and is a foil bag, the bottom packaging is a bottle labelled tetra safestart. It is very easy to tell the difference.

biospira

Yeah I have...but the bio spira my LFS sells in the original refrigerated one. And that is the one you want right? Or unless it has been sitting there since 2006...? I will have to check the date it was made? Is there a shelf live for this product...and if so...do you think it is longer than 3 years?


I would not expect a refridgerated product to have a shelf life of 3+ yrs. There will be nutrients available and refridgeration will slow the metabolism, but I can't see it beeing viable after this length of time. You could check the packet and see if there is a expiry date.

Given that it contains Nitrobacter spp rather than Nitrospira spp this is not the worst news

However when I tried this product, it was after a filter chlorine accident I due due to the pain killers I was taking at the time. I was starting to get ammonia by the day after the accident. I purchased enough for the tank size and used as directed. The ammonia lowered by late the following day and I did not see a large nitrite spike.
 

andywg

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I did not see a large nitrite spike.

And large is defined as? ;)

The science to date indicates that is that all the evidence points towards Nitrospira spp doing the nitrite oxidising in aquatic systems (except possibly in high ammonia and high nitrite level areas such as effluent plants where Nitrobacter spp is more commonly found).

Now the Nitrobacter spp in Bactinettes will certainly process the nitrites, but their growth rate will be low and any additional nitrite processing power will be from a fledgling colony of Nitrospira spp. Thus if anything was to occur (such as an ammonia spike) before the Nitrospira spp get established then the bacterial colony will not be in such a good position to respond.

My other problem with Bactinettes is that they claim the same product can be used for FW and SW. This means it is either plain lying, or is a waste of money as you are having to buy both FW and SW bacteria when you only want one.
 

TigerIssey

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And large is defined as?
Sorry should have said, did not go higher than 0.25 and only for one day.

My other problem with Bactinettes is that they claim the same product can be used for FW and SW. This means it is either plain lying, or is a waste of money as you are having to buy both FW and SW bacteria when you only want one.

That seems strange, I purchased from Maidenhead Aquatics, I was specifically asked whether my tank was FW or SW.

You have me intrigued now (I am biomed scientist in Hosp Microbiology lab) I have to find out more.

I have the PFK article in front of me now from May 2007 when it was on pg 85 and they say it contains Nitrosomonas, Nitrobacter and Paracoccus. The article does however say as you have stated that it can be used in marine aquariums aswell. Whether it is because of the Paracoccus strain that they say removes nitrates I am not sure. I can only presume that the colonys of Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter are supposed to deal with the nitrite until the nitrospira have colonised your filter media?? They do say that the paracoccus is unique to soll and is not available in any ither powder or liquid formulations. The storage facility is a bactinettes machine which presumably is developed to keep the paracoccus alive as the article does say it can be refridgerated for a short period of time however you really need to use it as soon as you get home.

I will see what else I can find!!
 

waterdrop

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Have you had a chance to read the Hovanec articles tigerssley? They're pretty interesting (eg. the story of figuring out it was nitrospira rather than nitrobacter, as Andy mentions.)

~~waterdrop~~
 

TigerIssey

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Have you had a chance to read the Hovanec articles tigerssley? They're pretty interesting (eg. the story of figuring out it was nitrospira rather than nitrobacter, as Andy mentions.)

I will look into those waterdrop, have found some interesting research as to why nitrobacter has been included, I would like a little time to go over this tomorrow (is 2.20am here at moment) and compare with the articles you have suggested. I think I have a theory, but would like to get it all sorted out in my head before I commit to paper. I have also found some interesting research on nitrosomonas and paracoccus.

I must admit, being house bound at the moment, due to an accident at work, this is giving my brain a long overdue work out, thank you. Plus I am interested, and due to pain, anything that holds my attention at the moment is good!!
 

waterdrop

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You should be able to pull up the Hovanec articles (there are 3 of interest I believe) via Google Scholar or pubmed or other typical searches. Hopefully you won't have any trouble getting full text versions either to print or download. I think they were all in the Journal of Applied and Environmental Microbiology in like 96, 98, 2001, something like that.

Oh, and of course it was indeed bactinettes that I was thinking of in my much earlier post back there where I was talking about there being another refridgerated one besides biospira that had reports of working sometimes. I guess it was biospira that was available USA and bactinettes in the UK.

~~waterdrop~~
 

TigerIssey

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Waterdrop, I have athens account password that I can use at home anyway, which is given to me through NHS. I can easily access those journals as that is one relevant to the department I work in and have already got the full text version of one of them. Unfortunately my print cartridge has gone at the moment, if my mum is coming to see me tommorrow, I will email them to her so that she can print them for me.

Thanks for info
 

waterdrop

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Yeah, I work in research on a campus too and have sometimes given confusing advice, not realizing that my networks were giving me full text because the university had paid a subscription and that it was not in some cases as easy for someone outside those networks to just pull the stuff up. Luckily, those times seem less and less these days! Anyway, take your time and have fun digesting the stuff, no hurry, these discussions have been around for years.

~~waterdrop~~
 

TigerIssey

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My searches are getting better, I have all three and a couple of others by other authors that I want to take a look at. It is so good to be able to do something, You would not believe how these four walls are driving me mad!!!

Yeah, I work in research on a campus too and have sometimes given confusing advice, not realizing that my networks were giving me full text because the university had paid a subscription and that it was not in some cases as easy for someone outside those networks to just pull the stuff up

I have also made that mistake, I must have automatic athens switched on, as soon as I logged on to the journal site it let me have full PDF access.
 

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