Betta sick again.

QiQi

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There are previous posts about his issues, but here it is once again.
Rescued this betta on January. He was skinny with a ripped tail and a bump on his face that had white stuff in it. I was advised to treat with antiparasitic medicine since it wasn't fluffy, it wasn't ich either, and he didn't show any other symptoms. I treated him, he got much better.
3-4 weeks later this thing reappeared and the side of his face swell a lot. I treated him again, this time double dosed (got info online from the company that you can do that safely), and followed up an antibacterial/antifungal treatment. Once again it seemed that he recovered.
After that, the colour on his face started changing and getting more grey, no excess mucus and small holes, I thought maybe it's just healing tissue. This greyish patch keeps getting bigger, and the holes don't look symmetrical, so I doubt they are his sensory pits.
2 days ago, the side of his face swell again and this time much more than the last time, so he is back to his quarantine tank now.
He never flashed or showed any other symptoms, he eats well, he has grown to 2 inches in body length, his fins have healed.
I have tried salt baths, myxazin, sterazin, parazin and keep the water clean.

Water parameters:
Temp 26 Celsius, Cl2 0, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5, Gh 7, Kh 5, Ph 7

I feed Omega Sea Betta pellets, bloodworms and fasting once a week.

I am concerned since the swelling is worse this time and it keeps coming back. The bump with the white thing in it dissappered again and hasn't come back 2 days now. Treating with salt baths only at the moment since I don't know what is going on and I don't want to medicate without knowing what this is.

Could it be hole in the head? Lymphocystis? Or should I still assume it's a parasite or infection? Could it be a combination of multiple causes? I am really trying to figure out what it could be since the day I got him, and he just keeps getting better and then worsen way more.
 

coriesinhawaii

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Could it be that whatever is causing the infection is in the main tank so he just gets reinfected when you put him back in there from the treatment tank?
 

Colin_T

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If you continue having problems with a fish, you should continue using the original thread or post links to the original thread in the new one so we can see what has been done previously. Otherwise we have to go and ask the same questions over again.

A picture of the fish & tank tells a thousand words and video helps too.

How often and how do you clean the filter?
How often do you do water changes?
Do you gravel clean the substrate when you do a water change?
Do you dechlorinate the new water before adding it to the tank?

What are you feeding the fish and how often do you feed it?
Frozen or freeze dry bloodworms?

What else is in the tank?

Did you add salt to the tank and leave it in the tank for a couple of weeks or did you catch the fish and put it in a salt bath each day?
What dose rate of salt did you use?
Did you use sodium chloride or epsum salt?

What medications have you used and how long did you use each of them for?
What other chemicals have you put in the tank?
 
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QiQi

QiQi

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I will try to get good pictures of him, it's quite hard when he keeps moving all the time and my phone doesn't take the best pictures either.
How often and how do you clean the filter?
Every 2 weeks, I squish it in old tank water.
How often do you do water changes?
Weekly, around 30%
Do you gravel clean the substrate when you do a water change?
Yes, I vaccum half of the tank and then the other half on the next water change.
Do you dechlorinate the new water before adding it to the tank?
I remineralize RO water, but I have api dechlorinator in case I have to use tap water.
What are you feeding the fish and how often do you feed it?
I feed him omega sea betta pellets, 5 in the morning and 5 in the evening, frozen bloodworms twice a week that I let it defrost in some tank water before feeding, and fasting once a week. He has never been bloated or looked overfed so far.
What else is in the tank?
He already had this disease when I bought him (that was the reason why I got him since I wanted to help him). He was then with cherry shrimp and nerite snails, and later on I added come habrosus cories and harlequin rasboras (they all got quarantined for 5 weeks and they are healthy).
Did you add salt to the tank and leave it in the tank for a couple of weeks or did you catch the fish and put it in a salt bath each day?
The fish is in a separate quarantine tank every time this disease resurface and I do salt dips in a separate bucket.
What dose rate of salt did you use?
Did you use sodium chloride or epsum salt?
I did a 3% with API salt
What medications have you used and how long did you use each of them for?
1st time he got sick I used sterazin and followed the bottle instructions (dose was on day 1,3, 5, 8 and 10), 2nd time I double dosed for 10 days straight, then waited 48 hours and used myxazin. Now I just do salt dips and keep his quarantine tank clean till I figure out what this is since it keeps coming back, I must be doing something wrong.
What other chemicals have you put in the tank?
Only TNC complete as a fertilizer.
 
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QiQi

QiQi

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Could it be that whatever is causing the infection is in the main tank so he just gets reinfected when you put him back in there from the treatment tank?
He already had it when I bought him, he was in with shrimp and snails only in my main tank, then I quarantined other fish to add in and all of them are very healthly and never showed signs of illness.
 
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QiQi

QiQi

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This is the tank (excuse the algae, it is maintenance day tomorrow)
IMG_20210422_120514894(1).jpg


And here is the fish, these are the best pictures I could take.
The swelling went down quite a bit, a bit visible on the first picture, in front of his left eye that looks like a bump.
IMG_20210422_164409187(1).jpg


On the secon picture you can see better the dicoloration around his left eye, it is more grey.
IMG_20210422_164805552(1).jpg


This is an older picture, you can see the discolouration a bit better and the bump with the white thing in it, he didn't have the extra swelling behind the corner of the mouth back then. (The rest of the white dots are just dirt on the glass)
IMG_20210208_150034489.jpg

Another older picture and you can see the discolouration, it is not excess mucus, just his scales are lighter, and now it has spread more.
IMG_20210208_150001758.jpg
 
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QiQi

QiQi

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I also want to add that he already had curled fins when I bought him, looks like it was fin rot or he got injured and they healed curly, but I can only assume since he was already in that state when I got him.
 
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QiQi

QiQi

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Update: There is still some swelling, and the grey patch hasn't improved at all. Should I continue the salt dips or try again with antiparasitic or antibacterial /antifungal? Is there anything else I can do? I definitely know that the swelling will start blocking his mouth and gill in the future since whenever it reappears it looks bigger.
 
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QiQi

QiQi

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Have his symptoms resolved after you treated him before with the medication? Or they never went away completely at all?
The swelling and the bump, yes, but not the grey patch on his face.
 
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QiQi

QiQi

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But I am not sure what that patch is, it's not slimy, so I thought it could be healing tissue, but maybe its the opposite and it's eating up the skin? I really don't know what this is and rather than that he is doing great, proper weight, zooming around etc.
 

coriesinhawaii

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Yikes I’m not sure what to do at this point. If the meds helped the bump and swelling to go away that makes it seem like it’s being successfully treated but then getting reinfected. Are you putting him back in the main tank after the treatment and then the symptoms reappear? I know you said none of the other fish have had any problems but sometimes the others just aren’t as susceptible. If that’s the scenario the culprit is probably seeded in the main tank.

Sounds like the patch either isn’t an infection at all or is a different kind of infection than the bump since it never resolved.

Not sure if that’s very helpful. Hopefully someone can offer some guidance.
 
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QiQi

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I am really not sure what's going on either, he definitely had it already when I bought him, and when I quarantine I have separate equipment and decor nets etc that are not being used in the main tank. I also made sure to buy waterlife products for his treatment since the pet shops I bought fish from, are not using this brand at all (in case there was something resistant to the medicine they use there). I have rescaped the main tank when it was just him, snails and shrimp in there and soaked the decor sponge filter and plants in antibacterial and antiparasitic , disinfected the glass and added brand knew substrate, I had a mini cycle but I was doing water changes daily and adding some extra bacteria.
 

carligraceee

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I am really not sure what's going on either, he definitely had it already when I bought him, and when I quarantine I have separate equipment and decor nets etc that are not being used in the main tank. I also made sure to buy waterlife products for his treatment since the pet shops I bought fish from, are not using this brand at all (in case there was something resistant to the medicine they use there). I have rescaped the main tank when it was just him, snails and shrimp in there and soaked the decor sponge filter and plants in antibacterial and antiparasitic , disinfected the glass and added brand knew substrate, I had a mini cycle but I was doing water changes daily and adding some extra bacteria.
The gray patch could be scarring from an injury or the infection he had.
 

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