Bacteria Life In Media

[DevotedToDiscus]

Does anyone know how long the bacteria in mature filter media will live for if removed and kept wet?
I am helping someone setup a tank and am going to give them the mature media out if one of my filters. It might be a couple of days between removing my media and getting it in their filter. Obviously I will keep it all wet, but I don't know with any certainty what the actual life span of the bactiria is once the filter is switched off.

Cheers.

 

[MojoDex]

It varies on who you ask, some people have said as little as 4 hours! But many moons ago I read that as long as it's kept wet, it will be fine for a long while. It will die back, but once it gets fed again it should spring back to life fairly quickly. 
 
I wouldn't worry about a day though, that should be fine.
 
I used to know a guy who regularly had 3-4 day power cuts, He never had any issues. He just used to pop the lid off all the filters!

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

Since a lot of people have different ideas about this subject, I did a little searching of my own to get a solid answer.  Research shows that they can go without ammonia for a while.  Here are some links with some of the important stuff in quotes:
 
Link 1:
"...N. briensis cells remain in a state allowing fast recovery of ammonia-oxidizing activity after addition of NH4+ to a starved culture."
"...cultures of N. briensis showed potential ammonia-oxidizing activities of between 200 to 250 μM N h−1, and this activity decreased only slowly during starvation up to 10 days. Within 10 min after the addition of fresh NH4+, 100% activity was regained."
 
Link 2:
"...cultures of ... Nitrosomonas europaea were starved of ammonia (energy source) for up to 342 d. During this time the bacteria retained the ability to respond instantly to ammonia..."

 

[DevotedToDiscus]

Great info, and those links are excellent! Just what I needed to know.
 
Thanks so much for that 

 

[the_lock_man]

The man you want to ask is TwoTank Amin, he is very well-read on this. The shortened version is that the bacteria do not die, they simply go dormant, even if you let them dry out. The worse their conditions are (ie dry or wet, length of time without ammonia), the longer it is for them to "wake up".

 

[Sophie]

The man you want to ask is TwoTank Amin, he is very well-read on this. The shortened version is that the bacteria do not die, they simply go dormant, even if you let them dry out. The worse their conditions are (ie dry or wet, length of time without ammonia), the longer it is for them to "wake up".

 
Surely some die though.. Everything living has to die at some point?
I mean, not necessarily killed but reaching the end of its life cycle. I presume the bacteria would die off and then just replace itself?
Completely off context of OP's question but I'd like to know

 

[ech0o]

So after 10 days, it takes 10 minutes of exposure to ammonia for it to reactive fully.  

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Just to clarify. Established nitrifiers live in a bio-film. It has moisture. As long as the bio-film is intact, It will protect the bacteria. So to a certain extent when the media looks dry to us, it may not yet be to them. However, the bacteria will eventually die if there is no way to insure some moisture. The bacteria are tough but they are not indestructible,
 
The bacteria have the ability to detect when the things they need to live are not there which is when they start to shut down. They will go dormant. When conditions improve they revive. Different bacteria revive at different rates. Also, how fast they might revive depends how long they have been dormant. But as important is in what condition they were when they went to "sleep." Well fed healthy ones last a whole lot longer and will revive a whole lot faster. The bacteria do not wait until they have used up their resources to go dormant, they can sense while still in good shape that their food etc. is not available,
 
So, you can ship media kept wet/damp and have it take days and it wont be a problem. It will be fine for a very long time without all the other things it needs besides not being able to dry out. It can last for some time in a broken filter, it can last in a bottle for a long time too.
 
Of course all this survivability is predicated on the fact the the bacteria is not exposed to temperatures which will kill it. Freezing will kill it and temps in the range of 104F for a short term will too, Higher temps will be deadlier faster.
 
It is possible for dormant bacteria which have been this way for extended periods to recover and to resume normal functions. However, this may take quite a bit of time. Dr. Tim's product states use within 6 months of the bottling date or 12 months when it has been kept refrigerated. It says this not because there bacteria will all be dead but because the amount of time it takes them to revive and get back to full strength is so long that it won't happen rapidly enough to benefit a cycle much if at all.

 

[DevotedToDiscus]

Just to clarify. Established nitrifiers live in a bio-film. It has moisture. As long as the bio-film is intact, It will protect the bacteria. So to a certain extent when the media looks dry to us, it may not yet be to them. However, the bacteria will eventually die if there is no way to insure some moisture. The bacteria are tough but they are not indestructible,
 
The bacteria have the ability to detect when the things they need to live are not there which is when they start to shut down. They will go dormant. When conditions improve they revive. Different bacteria revive at different rates. Also, how fast they might revive depends how long they have been dormant. But as important is in what condition they were when they went to "sleep." Well fed healthy ones last a whole lot longer and will revive a whole lot faster. The bacteria do not wait until they have used up their resources to go dormant, they can sense while still in good shape that their food etc. is not available,
 
So, you can ship media kept wet/damp and have it take days and it wont be a problem. It will be fine for a very long time without all the other things it needs besides not being able to dry out. It can last for some time in a broken filter, it can last in a bottle for a long time too.
 
Of course all this survivability is predicated on the fact the the bacteria is not exposed to temperatures which will kill it. Freezing will kill it and temps in the range of 104F for a short term will too, Higher temps will be deadlier faster.
 
It is possible for dormant bacteria which have been this way for extended periods to recover and to resume normal functions. However, this may take quite a bit of time. Dr. Tim's product states use within 6 months of the bottling date or 12 months when it has been kept refrigerated. It says this not because there bacteria will all be dead but because the amount of time it takes them to revive and get back to full strength is so long that it won't happen rapidly enough to benefit a cycle much if at all.

Thanks dude.

 

[NeonBlueLeon]

Dr. Tim's product states use within 6 months of the bottling date or 12 months when it has been kept refrigerated. It says this not because there bacteria will all be dead but because the amount of time it takes them to revive and get back to full strength is so long that it won't happen rapidly enough to benefit a cycle much if at all.

Have you ever used Dr. Tim's One and Only to success?  I have friends who have tried similar products from Tetra and API, but to no avail.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Yes I have several times. i have used it to cycle altum tanks to receive imported fish. I have used it to set up a fast Q tank. I have used it to set up tanks fast for parking fish. i would guess I have used it about 5 times and it worked fine. In fact I tend to under dose it and then use ammonia to build it up over a couple of weeks when time was not an issue, I stretch it out. Once it was used to start filters at 7.0 pH and get them working down at 6.0. This went fine and was supposed top be for the altums brough in again, but this time put into 4.2 pH water. The plan was to acclimate down the bacteria to 6 as I brought the fish slowly up to that level. The amazing part of it all was the tank cycled itself before it hit 6. I never had to use the media I had prepared.
 
I do not trust the API product based on the shelf life claims.
 
The Tetra Safe Start is more complicated to use these days than Dr Tim's. Originally they were identical since they are his discovery made at marineland before they were acquired by the conglomerate that owns Tetra. They moved the lab operations to Germany I believe and perhaps a facility in VA (not sure on that).
 
There are some other products that will work but which are not so readily available.