Timmy
Fish Fanatic
Would that not cover just about anyone that keeps livebearers in a community tank?jflowers said:
Are feeder fish legal ?
- Thread starter tigerfish
- Start date
The April FOTM Contest Poll is open!
🏆 Click to vote! 🏆
Paul_MTS
MAD
thats accidental so wouldn't stand up in court!!
actually buying fish introducing them into your tank as food for the others IS illegal.
When i had lovebearers in a community i just left them be that way only the strongest and fastest will survive.
actually buying fish introducing them into your tank as food for the others IS illegal.
When i had lovebearers in a community i just left them be that way only the strongest and fastest will survive.
Timmy
Fish Fanatic
It's not accidental - you have deliberately and knowingly set up the conditions in which it will happen.paul_v_biker said:
It's not illegal - see earlier posts.
Personally I do not agree with live feeding unless the predator will only take live food and in this case the feeding must be humane and controlled.
Lovebearers eh, that about describes them
jflowers
Ignore my post count, it means I waffle too much,
When this was being debated I decided to ask the RSPCA the question. I have just recieved the following response.
Feeding live fish to other fish
Enquiry:
Hi I am a member of a fish keeping forum. A question has arisen as to whether it is legal in the UK to feed live fish to other fish. I have searched all over for a definitive answer but can't find one. Do you know whether its legal or not, or the act that may deal with this.
Response:
Thank you for your enquiry. We are not aware of there being any legal constraints on feeding fish to other live fish or any animal. There is also no legislation that specifically allows the use of certain fish to feed certain other fish. However, there is clear evidence that fish are sentient, so such action could potentially be an offence under the Protection of Animals Act 1911 if a vet agreed that unnecessary suffering had been caused by such actions. The difficulty would therefore arise when trying to prove suffering had intentionally been caused. For example, piranhas (depending on the species) will scavenge fish scales off live fish, take dead or meat sinking through the water or if hungry enough could attack live fish. However, piranhas do not require the offering of live fish in captivity to trigger feeding, as feeding can also be triggered by dead meat/fish being dropped into their water tank. Another issue that could have an impact on the welfare of the piranha's and the fish being added for food, is the taking of fish from one water environment to then release straight into water of a different water environment. It is widely recognised that such practice can shock the fish and could even be fatal. I hope this information is helpful for you and thank you again for contacting us. Kind regards RSPCA Enquiries Service
Feeding live fish to other fish
Subject:Feeding live fish to other fish
Ref no.:1106212733628
Recd.:21/01/2005
Status.:responded
There you have it, Clear as mud
Jon
Feeding live fish to other fish
Enquiry:
Hi I am a member of a fish keeping forum. A question has arisen as to whether it is legal in the UK to feed live fish to other fish. I have searched all over for a definitive answer but can't find one. Do you know whether its legal or not, or the act that may deal with this.
Response:
Thank you for your enquiry. We are not aware of there being any legal constraints on feeding fish to other live fish or any animal. There is also no legislation that specifically allows the use of certain fish to feed certain other fish. However, there is clear evidence that fish are sentient, so such action could potentially be an offence under the Protection of Animals Act 1911 if a vet agreed that unnecessary suffering had been caused by such actions. The difficulty would therefore arise when trying to prove suffering had intentionally been caused. For example, piranhas (depending on the species) will scavenge fish scales off live fish, take dead or meat sinking through the water or if hungry enough could attack live fish. However, piranhas do not require the offering of live fish in captivity to trigger feeding, as feeding can also be triggered by dead meat/fish being dropped into their water tank. Another issue that could have an impact on the welfare of the piranha's and the fish being added for food, is the taking of fish from one water environment to then release straight into water of a different water environment. It is widely recognised that such practice can shock the fish and could even be fatal. I hope this information is helpful for you and thank you again for contacting us. Kind regards RSPCA Enquiries Service
Feeding live fish to other fish
Subject:Feeding live fish to other fish
Ref no.:1106212733628
Recd.:21/01/2005
Status.:responded
There you have it, Clear as mud
Jon
nshockeyplaya
Fishaholic
Well think about this in the wild, snakes, fish, and many other animals eat smaller animals on the food chain. We are always trying to make the fish's ennvironments just like their natural habitat so why dont we feed them like they eat in their natural habitat. Thats why theres something called the food chain.
NickT
Fishaholic
so if im in the UK and my guppy has babies and eats them while the cops are at my house, i get busted? or is this one of those laws like "crocadiles cant be leashed to firehydrants" laws??
this was probly answerd in one of the many posts but i didnt read them all.....
J/K dont bother responding to my question....
this was probly answerd in one of the many posts but i didnt read them all.....
J/K dont bother responding to my question....
Vulpes Angelos
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2005
- Messages
- 3
- Reaction score
- 0
Hmmm...
I suppose this has to be a moral discussion now (being it's been shown the whole debate about UK being fully illegal is not right and only illegal under circumstance, or what I gathered from the post anyway).
I have mixed feelings about that, the whole it shouldn't be allowed to do this or that in one sense. Although I know the UK has recently been bringing some light on this issue, I know fox hunting with dogs is okay in the UK. I wouldn't understand how that could be legal yet feeding a prey animal to a predator animal would be seen as illegal...
I guess my mentality is don't just go ban everything indefinately because it won't work, but if some other serious cruelties are happening while other (in my opinion) more minor cruelties are being shown, do work to limit all of it it as opposed to a full cap of limitation on just one cruelty.
As said previously, obviously some fish are going to eat other fish (although in a tropical tank it's more likely going to be an accident on your part, it won't be on the fish's). I couldn't keep certain animals because I have an affinity for all of them, I dislike the idea of taking an animal I just spent a few hours with driving from the petstore and then suddenly saying 'okay fight for your life in an enclosed space, and btw I'm betting on the other guy'. On the other hand I think if someone wants to have a pet like that (although I'd hope they'd try to be humane about it) I think they shouldn't be deprived a pet they're capable of taking care of because of a law. Except in some cases (I think some animals shouldn't be kept as pets just on principle, unless you've got a LOT of property they're just going to be miserable or in case of a susptable and or endangered species), I think that people should generally be allowed to keep what they'd want as pets.
Now on the other side of the coin, even if you're not an animal advocate like I am, I think everyone SHOULD support animal cruelty laws (unless they're kind of obviously, well, fanatic). Why? It shows maturity in a pet owner. You'll see a lot of news reports on how people buy large snakes and then just release them like yesterday's garbage and now florida is gaining too large of a number of them or how people will just take baby crocs and flush them cause they don't want them anymore. I think you can generally nip those kind of immature lack of ability pet owners in the bud by giving them humane laws. I guess it's just my opinion that someone who'd get their kicks out of seeing a really inhumane action (not just a quick rip and chew feeding, but more along the lines of true sadism) are the types who'd endanger the animal itself they're keeping aswell as other animals/people around them with said pet. When I read stories like a man got mauled to death by a pet tiger he had or something along those lines I wonder just how well of a keeper he was, and what he actually did with what he fed it? While obviously animals need to eat and human beings are capable of discerning right and wrong; most animals are not, I think that some humane laws (which both do exist or should exist) would help in keeping not just happy furry animals (or in this case shiny fish) frolicking about, but weed out the immature keepers who don't truly care about their pets.
Mind you, to prevent argument (as I know long winded posts like thise can cause arguments if you don't backtrack and make sure you made something clear x.x), I'm not saying anyone ever guilty of one animal abuse crime is an immature keeper nor am I saying that someone who wants to feed one animal to another falls in that category. I think it's a case of mindset and one who wishes un-needed cruelty on a smaller more defenseless animal can be generally seen as an animal owner posing a threat by keeping an animal they probably don't know how to take care of. I've seen plenty of people who don't deserve to own animals, and if there were more laws that protected against this or that extremely cruel loophole instead of just completely banning the topic of only one form of cruelty, maybe more of these whackos could be caught.
Just my two cents anyway
;
I suppose this has to be a moral discussion now (being it's been shown the whole debate about UK being fully illegal is not right and only illegal under circumstance, or what I gathered from the post anyway).
I have mixed feelings about that, the whole it shouldn't be allowed to do this or that in one sense. Although I know the UK has recently been bringing some light on this issue, I know fox hunting with dogs is okay in the UK. I wouldn't understand how that could be legal yet feeding a prey animal to a predator animal would be seen as illegal...
I guess my mentality is don't just go ban everything indefinately because it won't work, but if some other serious cruelties are happening while other (in my opinion) more minor cruelties are being shown, do work to limit all of it it as opposed to a full cap of limitation on just one cruelty.
As said previously, obviously some fish are going to eat other fish (although in a tropical tank it's more likely going to be an accident on your part, it won't be on the fish's). I couldn't keep certain animals because I have an affinity for all of them, I dislike the idea of taking an animal I just spent a few hours with driving from the petstore and then suddenly saying 'okay fight for your life in an enclosed space, and btw I'm betting on the other guy'. On the other hand I think if someone wants to have a pet like that (although I'd hope they'd try to be humane about it) I think they shouldn't be deprived a pet they're capable of taking care of because of a law. Except in some cases (I think some animals shouldn't be kept as pets just on principle, unless you've got a LOT of property they're just going to be miserable or in case of a susptable and or endangered species), I think that people should generally be allowed to keep what they'd want as pets.
Now on the other side of the coin, even if you're not an animal advocate like I am, I think everyone SHOULD support animal cruelty laws (unless they're kind of obviously, well, fanatic). Why? It shows maturity in a pet owner. You'll see a lot of news reports on how people buy large snakes and then just release them like yesterday's garbage and now florida is gaining too large of a number of them or how people will just take baby crocs and flush them cause they don't want them anymore. I think you can generally nip those kind of immature lack of ability pet owners in the bud by giving them humane laws. I guess it's just my opinion that someone who'd get their kicks out of seeing a really inhumane action (not just a quick rip and chew feeding, but more along the lines of true sadism) are the types who'd endanger the animal itself they're keeping aswell as other animals/people around them with said pet. When I read stories like a man got mauled to death by a pet tiger he had or something along those lines I wonder just how well of a keeper he was, and what he actually did with what he fed it? While obviously animals need to eat and human beings are capable of discerning right and wrong; most animals are not, I think that some humane laws (which both do exist or should exist) would help in keeping not just happy furry animals (or in this case shiny fish) frolicking about, but weed out the immature keepers who don't truly care about their pets.
Mind you, to prevent argument (as I know long winded posts like thise can cause arguments if you don't backtrack and make sure you made something clear x.x), I'm not saying anyone ever guilty of one animal abuse crime is an immature keeper nor am I saying that someone who wants to feed one animal to another falls in that category. I think it's a case of mindset and one who wishes un-needed cruelty on a smaller more defenseless animal can be generally seen as an animal owner posing a threat by keeping an animal they probably don't know how to take care of. I've seen plenty of people who don't deserve to own animals, and if there were more laws that protected against this or that extremely cruel loophole instead of just completely banning the topic of only one form of cruelty, maybe more of these whackos could be caught.
Just my two cents anyway
;
jflowers
Ignore my post count, it means I waffle too much,
HAHA, is that who I think it is LOL or are you new? welcome to the forums if you are.
Jon
Jon
Vulpes Angelos
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2005
- Messages
- 3
- Reaction score
- 0
Nope, I'm new. Sorry if I'd taken a similar s/n to someone else'sjflowers said:
;;J-Money
Fishaholic
Why not stimulate the natural responses? If an animal has any predator tendancies, wouldn't he be happier with some live food once in a while? My Tiger barbs eat all kinds of flake and pellet foods, but once in a while I throw ghost shrimp in there for them and my DPs and they love it.
I only read a few posts on the first page (7 pages is a lot to try to catch up on
) and someone brought up snakes. I used to have a burmese python that I fed guinea pigs to before I got rid of him (i moved and had no room so I gave him to a pet store). I'm sure within months he was up to eating rabbits. If you can't feed with live animals in the UK, is it legal to keep snakes? Sorry if that wuz already asked, but like I said, 7pages is a lot 
) .
I only read a few posts on the first page (7 pages is a lot to try to catch up on
) and someone brought up snakes. I used to have a burmese python that I fed guinea pigs to before I got rid of him (i moved and had no room so I gave him to a pet store). I'm sure within months he was up to eating rabbits. If you can't feed with live animals in the UK, is it legal to keep snakes? Sorry if that wuz already asked, but like I said, 7pages is a lot ) .
jflowers
Ignore my post count, it means I waffle too much,
Oh well, like I saidVulpes Angelos said:Nope, I'm new. Sorry if I'd taken a similar s/n to someone else'sjflowers said:
Jon
pica_nuttalli
don't be a twit
actually, even more recent studies have suggested that such "lower order animals" such as fish, lobster, shrimp, et cetera, don't experience pain or fear as we know it. i'm not certain i buy that as being true of all *fish*, but i'll buy it for the inverts.
In all this, I cannot understand the distinction people draw between inverts and vertabrates. Just because their skeleton is arranged differently, what makes it any different with regard to nervous system and whether it feels fear or pain. I can assure you, shrimps and crabs react with fearlike actions and scurry away from feeding fish.
Let me throw two last things into the ring.
What about the use of live bait by anglers (fisherman)?
What about the pain and suffering to fish, crushed to death in commercial fishing nets?
Let me throw two last things into the ring.
What about the use of live bait by anglers (fisherman)?
What about the pain and suffering to fish, crushed to death in commercial fishing nets?
OohFeeshy
It's only forever; not long at all...
This was brought up a few posts ago, but fox hunting with dogs is now illegal in the UK. Although TBH, its the most pathetic law ever, the hunters can still use the dogs to flush out the foxes, then shoot them. 
Most reactions
-
284 -
230 -
160 -
141 -
138 -
132 -
119 -
118 -
102 -
95 -
87 -
85 -
78 -
70 -
64
