aqua-import view on drip acclimation

[anewbie]

So this is the first time i ordered from them as they had a fish i wanted and hasn't been availalbe for a couple of years - rather inexpensive fish at approx $4 each.

Anyway they had this commentary in the package:

 

[MattW]

Any shop I have bought from has always suggested "drip acclimation". However, they suggest having the bag in the tank and using a cup to add/remove water rather than an actual drip hose.

 

[anewbie]

Any shop I have bought from has always suggested "drip acclimation". However, they suggest having the bag in the tank and using a cup to add/remove water rather than an actual drip hose.

the key argument against drip acclimation i've heard is that once the bag is open ammonia will develop from the exposure of fish waste to air - the key argument i've heard for drip acclimation is that the ammonia argument is bullshit and allowing the fish to slowly transition from previous water to new water will adjust it to the new environment.
-
I drip accliminated once - a gold ram back in 2019 - all other times i do the plop method - set the unopen bag in the tank for 15 to 30 minutes then pour the fish into a net (or at least the water out of bag into pail) and release the fish - i do not use a net with cat fishes but remove all water and then encourage it to plop into the tank (most (all?)) cat fishes have barbs that can get caught on nets.

 

[connorlindeman]

Aquahuna also promotes the "plop method."
I have personally never drip acclimated anything other then shrimp. Even with those, I no longer take the time to drip acclimate them.

 

[gwand]

Jeff at Aquatic Clarity also recommends what @anewbie described. Apparently so does Aqua Huna. But for shrimp the best method is drip acclimation according to several online shrimp sellers.

 

[GaryE]

Drip acclimation is one of those debates that go on forever without agreement. I suspect it will go down as a fad from one period of fishkeeping. However, I don't keep shrimp, and I can't comment on its usefulness there.

I'd argue what a fish needs upon arrival is clean water as warm as or warmer than the bag it's in. The store water should not get into your tanks, as there is the possibility of a different flora and fauna in it, and some things can be very dangerous.

If you are going to do a drip, don't dally. And if you use the plop method, the fish should plop into a fully cycled, adequately sized quarantine tank. A quarantine has to be a tank the fish could live in for good, or else it's a potential death trap for stressed fish.

 

[anewbie]

Drip acclimation is one of those debates that go on forever without agreement. I suspect it will go down as a fad from one period of fishkeeping.

Here is where i disagree with you - if the ammonia argument is true then it is clear the fish should be removed immediately from the bag once it is opened and i think there is no debate around that issue.

Of course if you buy the fish at your local store and the water is different then we have a different argument and there is little reason to not drip - though if your water is the same as the fish store in hardness then there is little benefit.

Of course there is a bigger debate if drip actually does anything useful in the first place. I would naively think that both cases could be test from a scientific method but have not seen any real papers written on the topic. Perhaps a worthy topic for a budding student.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

@GaryE
I plopped and dropped amanos on multiple occasions and both red and blue Neocaridina davidi in 3 different aquaisisitons.

I just read their directions for acclimating fish. IMO they are BS.


The most important thing to do when one is receiving fish which have been in transit for some time- a day or more- is to get them out of the bag ASAP.

1. There is no need to float a bag in the tank for temperature. I fhte water into which they will go is within the proer range to the species, there is 0 need to do more than drop the fish into that water.

2. The water in the bag is way less healthy than it was when it and the fish went into the bag. In transit every time the fish "exhales" several things are happening:
a. To "exhale" it must have "inhaled" and that means oxygen was used up.
b. The "exhale" expels toxic ammonia and CO2.
c. CO2 in water creates a bit of acid which causes the pH to drop.
d. Lowering the pH makes more of the ammonia become ammonium which is less harmful.

3. The very act of opening the bag does several things most of which can bew bad for the fish.
a. The excess CO2 in the water will be leaving the bag (bad),
b. This allows the pH to rise and which turns some of the ammonium back into ammonia (very bad)
c. Oxygen is coming in (good).

4. The sooner one gets the fish out of the bag after it has been opened, the better.

5. Research shows that when a fish is in water out of it's temperature range to the point where it will soon be fatal, the way to save the fish is to get it into water within its proper temperature rage ASAP- do not acclimated for this.

6. If the parameters of the new water are outside of the normal range for that species, it takes many days to acclimate the fish to this. For research studies, fish are always pre-acclimated in the lab in their water for anywhere from one to two weeks or even more.

7. When fish are being acclimated to new parameters, the physiological changes that the fish will undergo in terms of adapting to them acclimate to them cn tale one or two weeks to happen.

There is no way any form of real acclimation can be accomplished in 30 minutes nor will doing a drip work either.

If you talk to people who import fish you will almost universally hear that plop and drop is the way to go. I have been using this medhod for almoat 24 years now. I have been at a transhipper's place on Sunday in NYC. They are receiving many mnay boxes of fish from all over the world. They then need to divide them into small numbers for the buyers. I have watched what they do and have been the recipient of some of the fish. The are pouing then into large container of clean water and then rebagging them to fill customer orders. In the basement they have water prepared for this. I was given a tour of the setup. They are not using NYC tap water without treating it and then storing it and getting it to temp.

I have received fish shipped to me which are very pricey. Some have come from Asia or S. America. Some come from Europe or from withing the USA. I have recieved a box of 99 zebra plecos and 15 L173. All were plopped and dropped. There were a few arriving DOA, but all the live ones survived once in my tanks. I have received a box of fish worth over $10,000 which were not mine but were sent to me to try and spawn. I was responsible for keeping the alive. All ot these fish were plopped and dropped.

So, you can do what I suggest and become a plop and dropper or ypu can try to acclimate new fish. The choice is yours to make. But it helps if you know all of the above when you make your decision.

One last comment. I am doing what I do for FW fish. I do not keep brackish or SW fish so I cannpt speak to them in terms of how to accumulate or not. Also, I do the shrimp I kep the same way.



Craig, P.M., Wood, C.M. and McClelland, G.B., 2007. Gill membrane remodeling with soft-water acclimation in zebrafish (Danio rerio). Physiological genomics, 30(1), pp.53-60.
Full paper here: https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physiolgenomics.00195.2006

Abstract​

Little is known regarding the ionoregulatory abilities of zebrafish exposed to soft water despite the popularity of this model organism for physiology and aquatic toxicology. We examined genomic and nongenomic changes to gills of zebrafish as they were progressively acclimated from moderately hard freshwater to typical soft water over 7 days and held in soft water for another 7 days. Gills were sampled daily and mRNA expression levels of gill Na+-K+-ATPase (NKA) α1a subunit, epithelium calcium channel (ECaC), carbonic anhydrase-1 and 2 (CA-1, CA-2), Na+/H+ exchanger (NHE-2), V-type proton (H+)-ATPase, and copper transport protein (CTR-1) were quantified by real-time PCR. Changes in enzyme activities of gill NKA were determined and protein levels of NKA and ECaC were quantified by Western blotting. Levels of mRNA for ECaC increased fourfold after day 6, with an associated increase in ECaC protein levels after 1 wk in soft water. CA-1 and CA-2 exhibited a 1.5- and 6-fold increase in gene expression on days 6 and 5, respectively. Likewise, there was a fivefold increase in NHE-2 expression after day 6. Surprisingly, CTR-1 mRNA showed a large transient increase (over threefold) on day 6, while H+-ATPase mRNA did not change. These data demonstrate a high degree of phenotypic plasticity in zebrafish gills exposed to an ion-poor environment. This not only enhances our understanding of ionoregulatory processes in fish but also highlights the need for proper experimental design for studies involving preacclimation to soft water (e.g., metal toxicity).

MATERIALS AND METHODS​

Animals.​

Zebrafish (Danio rerio) were purchased from a local pet supply store (PetsMart, Canada) and housed in two 40-liter aquaria in dechlorinated Hamilton tap water, which is considered moderately hard (Na+ 927 ± 16 μM, Ca2+ 946 ± 11 μM, Mg2+ 422 ± 17 μM, Cu2+ 2.1 ± 0.7 μg/l, pH 8.3), maintained at 28°C (hard water). The fish were allowed 1 wk to acclimate to the new tanks before experimentation.

Experimental design.​

Over a period of 7 days, hard water was progressively removed and replaced with ion-poor reverse-osmosis water (∼15–20% daily, over a period of 15 minutes),

 

[anewbie]

@GaryE
I plopped and dropped amanos on multiple occasions and both red and blue Neocaridina davidi in 3 different aquaisisitons.

I just read their directions for acclimating fish. IMO they are BS.


The most important thing to do when one is receiving fish which have been in transit for some time- a day or more- is to get them out of the bag ASAP.

1. There is no need to float a bag in the tank for temperature. I fhte water into which they will go is within the proer range to the species, there is 0 need to do more than drop the fish into that water.

2. The water in the bag is way less healthy than it was when it and the fish went into the bag. In transit every time the fish "exhales" several things are happening:
a. To "exhale" it must have "inhaled" and that means oxygen was used up.
b. The "exhale" expels toxic ammonia and CO2.
c. CO2 in water creates a bit of acid which causes the pH to drop.
d. Lowering the pH makes more of the ammonia become ammonium which is less harmful.

3. The very act of opening the bag does several things most of which can bew bad for the fish.
a. The excess CO2 in the water will be leaving the bag (bad),
b. This allows the pH to rise and which turns some of the ammonium back into ammonia (very bad)
c. Oxygen is coming in (good).

4. The sooner one gets the fish out of the bag after it has been opened, the better.

5. Research shows that when a fish is in water out of it's temperature range to the point where it will soon be fatal, the way to save the fish is to get it into water within its proper temperature rage ASAP- do not acclimated for this.

6. If the parameters of the new water are outside of the normal range for that species, it takes many days to acclimate the fish to this. For research studies, fish are always pre-acclimated in the lab in their water for anywhere from one to two weeks or even more.

7. When fish are being acclimated to new parameters, the physiological changes that the fish will undergo in terms of adapting to them acclimate to them cn tale one or two weeks to happen.

There is no way any form of real acclimation can be accomplished in 30 minutes nor will doing a drip work either.

If you talk to people who import fish you will almost universally hear that plop and drop is the way to go. I have been using this medhod for almoat 24 years now. I have been at a transhipper's place on Sunday in NYC. They are receiving many mnay boxes of fish from all over the world. They then need to divide them into small numbers for the buyers. I have watched what they do and have been the recipient of some of the fish. The are pouing then into large container of clean water and then rebagging them to fill customer orders. In the basement they have water prepared for this. I was given a tour of the setup. They are not using NYC tap water without treating it and then storing it and getting it to temp.

I have received fish shipped to me which are very pricey. Some have come from Asia or S. America. Some come from Europe or from withing the USA. I have recieved a box of 99 zebra plecos and 15 L173. All were plopped and dropped. There were a few arriving DOA, but all the live ones survived once in my tanks. I have received a box of fish worth over $10,000 which were not mine but were sent to me to try and spawn. I was responsible for keeping the alive. All ot these fish were plopped and dropped.

So, you can do what I suggest and become a plop and dropper or ypu can try to acclimate new fish. The choice is yours to make. But it helps if you know all of the above when you make your decision.

One last comment. I am doing what I do for FW fish. I do not keep brackish or SW fish so I cannpt speak to them in terms of how to accumulate or not. Also, I do the shrimp I kep the same way.



Craig, P.M., Wood, C.M. and McClelland, G.B., 2007. Gill membrane remodeling with soft-water acclimation in zebrafish (Danio rerio). Physiological genomics, 30(1), pp.53-60.
Full paper here: https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physiolgenomics.00195.2006

Abstract​

Little is known regarding the ionoregulatory abilities of zebrafish exposed to soft water despite the popularity of this model organism for physiology and aquatic toxicology. We examined genomic and nongenomic changes to gills of zebrafish as they were progressively acclimated from moderately hard freshwater to typical soft water over 7 days and held in soft water for another 7 days. Gills were sampled daily and mRNA expression levels of gill Na+-K+-ATPase (NKA) α1a subunit, epithelium calcium channel (ECaC), carbonic anhydrase-1 and 2 (CA-1, CA-2), Na+/H+ exchanger (NHE-2), V-type proton (H+)-ATPase, and copper transport protein (CTR-1) were quantified by real-time PCR. Changes in enzyme activities of gill NKA were determined and protein levels of NKA and ECaC were quantified by Western blotting. Levels of mRNA for ECaC increased fourfold after day 6, with an associated increase in ECaC protein levels after 1 wk in soft water. CA-1 and CA-2 exhibited a 1.5- and 6-fold increase in gene expression on days 6 and 5, respectively. Likewise, there was a fivefold increase in NHE-2 expression after day 6. Surprisingly, CTR-1 mRNA showed a large transient increase (over threefold) on day 6, while H+-ATPase mRNA did not change. These data demonstrate a high degree of phenotypic plasticity in zebrafish gills exposed to an ion-poor environment. This not only enhances our understanding of ionoregulatory processes in fish but also highlights the need for proper experimental design for studies involving preacclimation to soft water (e.g., metal toxicity).

MATERIALS AND METHODS​

Animals.​

Zebrafish (Danio rerio) were purchased from a local pet supply store (PetsMart, Canada) and housed in two 40-liter aquaria in dechlorinated Hamilton tap water, which is considered moderately hard (Na+ 927 ± 16 μM, Ca2+ 946 ± 11 μM, Mg2+ 422 ± 17 μM, Cu2+ 2.1 ± 0.7 μg/l, pH 8.3), maintained at 28°C (hard water). The fish were allowed 1 wk to acclimate to the new tanks before experimentation.

Experimental design.​

Over a period of 7 days, hard water was progressively removed and replaced with ion-poor reverse-osmosis water (∼15–20% daily, over a period of 15 minutes),

You are the very first person i have heard claim that there is no need to temperature acclimate the fish in a closed bag - i would argue that as long as the bag is closed the extra 20 minutes to adjust the temperature is probably worth it but my arguement is of course hollow without scientific data.
--
as for the 2nd part you are repeating the ammonium bit which i have heard from many sources but never actually seen it proven to be true as the explanation for removing the fish immediately once the bag is opened.

 

[GaryE]

Given that no one has tested this I know of, and it would be hard to test, we revert to experience. I know of no importers who drip acclimate. Everyone works as fast as they can. Even if the reaction to oxygen were to be proven a myth (something I doubt could be proven), shipping water is filthy, and has more fish in it than a petchain tank. So drip acclimate if you will, but I doubt it's of value as a procedure, and I see it as a probable harmful approach.

I check temperatures in summer, when I rarely receive fish. As a northerner, usually when fish get here they are in cool water, and a sudden temperature rise does them no harm. I have seen seemingly dead fish in cold water recover when gotten into their healthy range.

It would have to be an industry study to look at this. It isn't something a non commercial scientist would go for, and it would have to be fishfarm or importer linked. Since importers have an approach known to work well, why would they have such an experiment done?

 

[anewbie]

Gary - i'm not sure what you are saying with regard to temperature acclimation. As for as drip go i already stated i was in the camp against it but i do believe it can be tested scientifically simply by opening the bag removing the fish and then check the water for ammonia after the duration a drip acclimination would take. Of course for validity it should be a lab quality test.

Having said this the open question between me and tank is if the fish should be slowly temperature accliminated or left in the closed bag for 20 minutes and let the temperature slowly rise to tank temperature. I do not have an answer here as to whether it matter and your comment does not actually address what importers do in this area - you merely noted the already known that they do not drip accliminate.

 

[gwand]

I have never drip acclimated fish. But I considered it once when the fish came in bag with water with a GH greater than 300 ppm (Dan’s Fish) and I was placing the fish in water with a TDS of 20 ppm. I was afraid the sudden water shock would overwhelm the fish’s kidneys. The fish survived but had a shortened life. Causality? Probably not.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

It never ceases to amaze me how little of the science most fish keeper know about.

Do folks reading this thread not know that CO2 cause pH to drop? Look it up. You will read something like this

How Does CO2 Affct pH In Water​

Carbon dioxide is influential in regulating pH in water. Measuring the amount of CO2 in a solution is one way to determine the pH. For example, the more CO2 in water (H2O), the lower the pH will be. When CO2 is dissolved in water, a part of it reacts with water to become carbonic acid (H2CO3). It is the hydrogen ions present in carbonic acid that make water acidic, lowering the pH.

We can look at how carbonic acid is formed by the following equation:

CO2 (aq) + H2O → H2CO3 (aq)

Carbonic acid can also break up or “dissociate” into hydrogen ions (H+) and carbonate ions (CO3–2) which can be seen in the following equation:

H2CO3  → 2H+ + CO3–2

When this happens, two hydrogen ions are formed for every single carbonate ion.

pH (or power of hydrogen) measures the concentration of free hydrogen ions (\(H^{+}\)) in a solution. It determines how acidic or alkaline a substance is on a scale from 0 to 14:

• Acidic: High hydrogen ion concentration; pH is below 7.
• Neutral: Balanced H+ and hydroxide OH- ions; pH is exactly 7 (like pure water).
• Alkaline/Basic: Low hydrogen ion concentration; pH is above 7.

In water, it is the relationship between carbon dioxide and pH that influences pH levels. As mentioned, when carbon dioxide is dissolved in water, the release of hydrogen ions in carbonic acid is what lowers the pH.
https://atlas-scientific.com/blog/how-does-co2-affect-ph-in-water/

And yes fish exhale ammonia

Fish primarily excrete ammonia as a byproduct of protein metabolism, eliminating the vast majority of it (roughly 80-90%) by passive diffusion across their gills directly into the water. The remainder is continuously expelled in smaller amounts through their urine and feces via the kidneys and vent.
https://ask.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/FA031

So what do all the folks reading here think happens to the CO2 and ammonia which the fish pass out of their body via their gills into the bag water? Do you think it magically disappears? Do you think the science above stops working because you did not know how this all works?

I was curious about acclimation and started to hunt for research papers on the subject. Unfortunately, what I could find dealt with temperature. Most of it dealt with determining the terminal endpoint, both high and low, which would kill the fish. The science showed that the behavior of fish at either end point changed. The research was intended to identify at what temps the behavior changed and then how long it took for the fish to die. A lot of fish died to get the answers.

And then I came across one study (which I failed to bookmark) where the scientists took things beyond just discovering the death point. What they wondered was when they saw the behavior at the end point signalling the fish would be dying fairly soon, could they do something to save the fish, The answer was yes and the solution was as fast as possible to transfer the fish into water within their safe temperature range. Low and behold they prevented the fish from dying when they did this.

A number of years ago when I was selling in the vendor room at an NEC weekend event there was a vendor who specialized in discus. While I always arrived Thursday evening and had my booth set up before I went to bed, the discus folks came on Saturday morning. They had a specially equipped van they used for transporting the discus. It was basically a big holding container. They had a electricity which powered heaters and air in the container.

The NEC held its events the last weekend in March or the first one in April. That year there was a freak snow storm on Saturday morning. The temperatures were in the freezing range

Unfortunately, the electricity in the van broke and the water in the container got progressively colder and the van did as well., When the two gents with the discus arrived they were in a panic and explained why. What they did was to set up one of their tanks using the water from the van and then they began trying to acclimate the fish by gradually raising the temp. slowly. I knew the outcome from doing this would not be good, So tried to explain to them why they should not be acclimating but should be getting the fish into discus temps ASAP. I explained about the paper that had shown this,

They were pretty rude, told me to mind my own business as they were experts and knew what they were doing. I backed off and then watched 3/4 of their fish die. Had they listened, they would have saved most if not all of them.

The reason I was going to the Transshipper on Sundays was because I am a friend of Rachel O'Leary. She was the one who caused me to stop wasting time and fish doing any acclimation and to plop and drop them instead. She was acclimating them and losing about 1/3 of the fish on average. And then somebody taught her to stop doing that and start the plop and drop. Her loses dropped to under 10% as a result.

Here trip was an 8 hour affair and she had two young daughters at home ans often her husband was not available to be there with them. So I helped out by driving the 45 minutes to the the Transshipper, paying for he order in cash and then I drove to meet her in N. Philly. This saved her 4 hours. One nice thing I could do was to order fish at import prices. She sent me the weekly lists and pries and I would either buy stuff on my own or we might split a species or two. This worked well for both of us.

So now lets revisit the bag of fish sealed shut for the trip. The ammonia is being increased as the fish breath. But, the CO2 was also increasing as the fish "exhaled." But proper bagging involved as much air or even oxygen as possible, witin reason. So along the way the pH is being dropped even as the ammonia (NH3) is being created. And this works to keep the fish safe from the ammonia as it is mostly or even all in the form of ammonium (NH4).

In our tanks gas exchange happens at the surface where gasses from the air or in the water can enter or leave. All that has to happen is that the surface is agitated to break the surface tension which would other wise impede gas exchange between water and air. In a bag nothing goes out or in. (The exception is when one is able to use breather bags.) But as soon as we open the bag, gas exchange can happen, and this means the CO2 levels will drop. And when that happens the pH will rise.

Now lets talk about how fish are packed in terms of temperature. When it is cold, heat packs will be used to help keep temp. in a safe range for the fish. There are two consideration here. The first is one wants to keep the water temps. within the range the fish needs. But the second is to have the temp. in the box and thus the bags fairly constant. The best way to do this is to use two different duration heat packs.

The heat packs which have a 20 -30 hour duration tend to heat up pretty fast to their max output and then they begin to cool. On the other hand, heat packs of longer duration such as 50, 60 or 72 hours tend to warm up to their max output more slowly. But one they hit it they tend to hold it until they stop. So, for most instances the solution for keeping the box temp pretty steady for the duration of the trip I was taught to use both a shorter and a longer duration heat pack.

I sent box of 20 zebra plecos from here in NY to Texas. I used the USPO for this and at that time FedEx used to carry the Express mail boxes for the USPS. That box went out to the FedEx Chicago distribution center where it was supposed to be put onto a plane to Texas. But they had an accident involving a barrel of a toxic liquid falling off of a fork lift and spilling the contents onto to floor. They locked won the place.

It was on day 3 in transit when the box finally arrived at the the buyers home. We had advance warning it would arrive around or 5 in the afternoon. I had packed the fish to arrive in 24-30 hours and it was cold outside. So, I instructed my buyer that when the box arrived it was essential that he do no acclimation for anything but got the fish in to the proper temp. water ASAP. I explained why this was essential.

He took the water temp in the 3 bags into which I had divided the fish. The temp. was 60F in 2 bags and 59 in the third. Two of the fish were DOAs. But he did what I told him with the rest. Of course I offered him the choice of a refund or replacements and he oped for the refund which I sent right away. Two days later he called me to say two more fish had died. I said I would refund him for one as I could not be sure they had died as result of the temps. as opposed to something else in this tank. I refunded his money for one more fish, but he refused to accept it, We had used Zelle for it all and he declined it when it came into his bank.

As for the Transshipper and acclimating for anything, they do not do it, They had 1,00o of fish arriving and people showing up to pay and take them away. T\they handled them all by plopping and dropping them into good water of the right temp. and immediately rebagging them to go into boxes for their customers. Some of these fish were going to me. When I would meet Rachel on M. Philly she would open the bags and take out my fish and put them into new bags for me to take home with me. She also paid me back for the money I laid out for her order.

Neither of us lost man fish from this process. I averaged about 3-4 trips every 2 months to the transshipper and then to meet Rachel.

When ever I ship fish I have bred I always tell the buyer to plop and drop them and hot to bother trying to acclimate them. Considering I sold fish anywhere from $150 to several $100 per fish, I would have to be crazy to tell buyers to do things that would kill them.

I have actually killed fish in my early years trying to acclimate them before I finally learned why I needed to plop and drop them.

When I get new fish I set up a net on a bucket, I open he bag and poured the fish into the net. Then I put them into a tank. This is usually a Q tank but not always. Sometimes they will go directly into their permanent home which has been set up specifically for them.

(edited for a ton of typos and few incorrect words)

 

[GaryE]

I would guesstimate that I unpacked several thousand boxes of wild caught fish shipped into Canada in all sorts of weather, over a period of 25 years. I don't know how many thousands of often too expensive for me to buy fish were involved. I can't think of one case where plop acclimation killed a fish. Certainly, fish deaths in the bag occurred. I opened boxes of ice cubes a couple of times.

I've also dealt with the stress of delay. Airlines screw up, often. You don't have to open the bag to see the havoc wreaked by delays. The chemistry of opening the bag is one thing, but pollution and oxygen depletion of the water in the sealed bag works its own evil magic.

We saved fish that looked dead and had them QTed and healthy in a few weeks. I have a killie here that arrived in 2015, in a bag of rotting corpses where the water had the consistency of glue and the ammonia was breathtaking. One male and one female survived with a quick plop water change. and I've kept and bred them since.

I just plop acclimated two shipments to my little big home aquarium set up. Shipment one of mainly South American fish was of 65 individuals. I lost 2, already dead in the bag on arrival. Shipment two had 74 West African and 6 South American fish, all wild caught. I lost 1 in transit, and found 1 dead the next morning. Both were the same species.

I've had fish a long time and tend to keep delicate rainforest species with a reputation for being hard to ship.

No method is ideal. Shipping fish in small bags for huge distances via careless airlines isn't ideal. Buying fish online isn't ideal. Our goal is to minimize losses and get the fish back to good conditions as rapidly as we can, so they can live long lives in our tanks. Pick your means to that goal.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

One of the biggest causes of fish deaths is a lack of knowledge on the part of the fish keeper. The solutions for this is to gain the knowledge which will prevent this problem in the first place.

Cycling is a perfect example. If one knows little or nothing about what is involved, failure becomes the most likely result. I am always curious and I am also one who believes in science. This is what drove me to look to Google Scholar and to the respected experts involved with anything related to our hobby.

It is also why I am not on any social media at all. I know that somewhere in the range of 90% of the information there is outright wrong. The last place I would ever look for news is on any social media site at all. What I do know is, if you quote such sources to me, I know the odds are the information cannot be useful in any way except to know it is WRONG.

As for shipping fish, I am very good at this. It took me a while to learn how to do it properly. But I had to learn how when I started to get baby fish in my tanks. If you have 100 new bristlenose offpring and more coming, you better have a way to rehome them.

I also learned early on that most retail fish stores, especially ones which were more comprehensive pets stores with a fish department, do not, for the most part, care about anything beyond selling newly arrived stock as fast as they can. I came into the hobby not long after the start of the internet as a tool for the masses. In the early 1990s it was a phone line and modem driven experience to do anything "online." But in late 1998 I has no choice as things moved from dial-up to the internet.

I did a lot of research in the final months of 2000 to prepare me for my first tank in Jan. 2001. Unfortunately, I knew nothing about fishless cycling and just got fish. I learned pretty fast after that. Once I found out I could use ammonia from the supermarket to cycle a tank, I never did so with fish again. That was my first use of science to guide me and I have never looked back since then.

An this is whyon site's like this one I have made the posts which I do. Somebody has to challenge the misinformation with the science. I decided to do my part on this 23+ years ago and have been doing it ever since. But, I was also taught not to argue in public with fools as people watching might not e able to tell the difference.

If one searches the scientific literature on acclimating FW fish, you will soon discover that acclimation times involve hours at the very least and, more often involve days in some cases weeks. That is due to the fact that physiological changes takes time tp occur. More important is the fish used in experiments are being acclimated for a lot more time than we might consider when new fish having been in bags for some time before they get to us.

What is even more important is when the fish are acquired for experimental research they are accimated in new clean water, not in the water in which they arrived.

You do not have to take my word on any of this, all you have to do us to look at the studies yourself. You can start by navigating to here: https://scholar.google.com/ Then enter the following search term and see what you get back: acclimation of freshwater fishes

Or to save time, you can just go here: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?...is=1&q=acclimation+of+freshwater+fishes&btnG=

However, be warned as you will get about 82,900 results (0.16 sec). I suggest you only read the ones that do not include salt water or brackish fish or which do not compare ampjibians or land animals to fish. They will have informnation regarding the fish but the rest does not matter to this thread.