Apistos Or Blue Rams

[lurch1000]

Hi all,

Looking for advice and suggestions at the moment.

I have a 100l community tank with a sand substrate, assorted silk plants, couple of caves, one small rock (fist sized) and a moderate log in the middle. pH is as close to 7 as I can tell from the pH test.

I currently have 2 bronze cory, 2 panda cory (upping these to 3 of each soon, they seem to happily hang out as a group when they're not split up foraging), 5 male guppies, 1 neon tetra, 1 BN plec and one zebra snail.

I'm looking to up the stock levels before too long, and deciding between Blue Rams or Apistos. I'm as undecided on which Apisto to go for as much as I am with Rams vs Apistos.

From what I've read so far, my tank could be suitable for either, but if anyone would care to suggest any good SA cichlid reference sites, I'd be grateful. I'm obviously looking for compatibility, as well as any other factors that might sway the decision based on suitability.

Any pointers, suggestions and help will be gratefully received!

 

[deftuch]

blue rams. aka german blue rams? if so. i have 2 of these and they are great fish. best kept in pairs! they are very active peacfull fish. although rams always fight with each other playfully. id say blue rams.

 

[onidrase]

go for apistos imo. hardy, beautiful, and peaceful. german blue rams are known to be fragile and will die for pretty ridiculous reasons, and the fact you have a BN pleco in the tank worries me for having GBR's due to the pleco's high bio load (I can barely stand it in a 75 gallon aquarium.) which makes for higher nitrates, which GBR's tend to be sensitive too. GBR's also like a pretty high temperature of low to mid 80's, which your other fish may no appreciate.

 

[lurch1000]

Indeed, the German Blue Rams. Out of interest, do you have anything against Apistos, or just preference/experience?

I was planning on keeping whichever kind I get as a pair regardless. As for play fighting, get enough of that with the Guppies. Sure it went too far the other night, as it looks like the red-tail has a small chomp out of his caudal fin!

Meant to ask - how readily do Apistos/Rams breed? I'm not averse to them spawning, I've never bred anything, but I've heard how Platies breed, and breed...

 

[onidrase]

Meant to ask - how readily do Apistos/Rams breed? I'm not averse to them spawning, I've never bred anything, but I've heard how Platies breed, and breed...

Neither of them are particularly hard to breed, but they aren't as easy as livebearers like guppies and platies, which breed so much they're basically worth their weight in fish food.

 

[webbie]

Apistos or Rams? you could go for both,I have 3 Apistos [Agazzizzi],1 male 2 females,and a pair of rams though they are the Bolivian rams,I have given up on keeping GBR,s,Bolivians though not as colourful are a lot easier to keep,these are in an 80 ltr tank with very few squabbles ,along with pencils and celestial pearl danios

 

[lurch1000]

Looks like I need to check what the upper temp is for the fish I have. Tank usually sits around 25.5 (77-78F).

Both are stunning fish though.

Webbie - I assume you have a heavily planted tank if you have both?

I must take a snap of the 100l sometime.

 

[webbie]

Not as heavily planted as I would like just started running a co2 system to help the plants along ,but there are plenty of little hidey holes in among the slates that Iv,e got in,most of the aggro comes from the two female apistos which live at either end of the tank ,but its never got too serious,I do like the GBR,s but as I said Iv,e had no luck keeping them longer than a few weeks, Bolivians are much more tolerant to water conditions,and IMO more than make up for lack of colour with bags of attitude,which Apistos were you thinking of getting?

 

[Verminator89]

In any tank under 100L i would only have 1 pair of potential breeding cichlid, due to spawning behaviour. You may have no squabbles webbie, but that to me is right on the limit to what can 'comfortably' be kept in a tank that size. I personally wouldnt recommend such stocking, go with a pair of either, i would personally go for an appisto for their character and colouration. Also, if they did breed it is far more interesting in my opinion.

 

[lurch1000]

T's definitely going to be one or the other, and only one pair. Perhaps if I had a longer tank then maybe.

I think my favourite looking Apisto are the cacas, although I'm open to suggestion as which sub-species is most suitable. I'm certainly looking for good colour in any Apisto, as if there's only going to be one pair, I'd like for it to be a good looking pair (well, good looking male).

I think the best Apisto I've seen was Big Bruiser Al's that won the November or December FOTM. Absolutely stunning fish.

 

[Verminator89]

I've always been a fan of the Borelli's, Macmasteri are also very pretty fish. I think the Cac's are too extravegant, nice, but very bold.

 

[deftuch]

Indeed, the German Blue Rams. Out of interest, do you have anything against Apistos, or just preference/experience?

I was planning on keeping whichever kind I get as a pair regardless. As for play fighting, get enough of that with the Guppies. Sure it went too far the other night, as it looks like the red-tail has a small chomp out of his caudal fin!

Meant to ask - how readily do Apistos/Rams breed? I'm not averse to them spawning, I've never bred anything, but I've heard how Platies breed, and breed...

well if im honest ive never owned apistos personally but a friend used to and ive seen them before. is there a certain type you know of and that you can get. cos theres something like 200 different types of them. all different patterns ect. not sure if the size varys much. i just think the german blues are stunning as when they are happy they display excellent colour and tense up their fins displaying their whole span. and its only playfighting. its in their nature. they always swim together and rub eachother. im not sure as yet if i have 2 males or male/female. im sure i have a male. but the other one keeps losing its colour and regaining it. females can do this when they are ready to spawn ive read. but also they have a pinkish belly ans usually smaller front top fins. which mine doesnt have smaller fins and i cant be sure if its belly is really pink. all fish usaully require specific water conditions to breed. but if their happy enough you can get lucky i suppose.

 

[lurch1000]

I've been researching Rams, and there appears to be a wealth of conflicting information as to what temperature they can live in. And pH for that matter.

I've read that they prefer 27+ for temperature, but many sites suggest as low as 72F (about 22C?).

I think our preference is for the Rams, the OH likes the one on this page: Ram link and in fact, as I check the page, they are one of the sites that suggest the wide temperature band.

I'm also getting very confused between the term Ram, Blue Ram and German Blue, as everywhere I go seems to have the same scientific name Microgeophagus Ramirezi.

Who what and where to believe!!

The last thing I was is to have totally incorrect conditions for them.

 

[moochy13]

blue ram, german blue, GBR and the microblahblah are all in relation to the german blur ram. bolivian rams are very different looking fish, much easier to look after. personally though, id go for a nice rare pair of apistos. opposite to you, im not a fan of the apisto that won fish of the month, looked very plain compared to other apistos ive seen. macmasteri look great, and im sure theres plenty of others other than the standard cacutoides.

temp bands are precisely that, a range of temps the fish can live in. in the wild, heavy rain, cold(er) seasons will temporarily reduce water temps. if you kept GBR's at 22C you wouldnt have them very long. they wouldnt be healthy, they wouldnt grow properly, they wouldnt act properly. its just a low temp that they sometimes have to deal with in the wild. if i was keeping GBR's again i wouldnt look at anything under 26C minimum. bolivians and apistos are more forgiving.

 

[deftuch]

I've been researching Rams, and there appears to be a wealth of conflicting information as to what temperature they can live in. And pH for that matter.

I've read that they prefer 27+ for temperature, but many sites suggest as low as 72F (about 22C?).

I think our preference is for the Rams, the OH likes the one on this page: Ram link and in fact, as I check the page, they are one of the sites that suggest the wide temperature band.

I'm also getting very confused between the term Ram, Blue Ram and German Blue, as everywhere I go seems to have the same scientific name Microgeophagus Ramirezi.

Who what and where to believe!!

The last thing I was is to have totally incorrect conditions for them.

nah. i have a community tank thats always at 25.5 degrees and my water is medium hard. and my rams are very happy. i can tell this by their behaviour and their stunning colour.

blue ram, german blue, GBR and the microblahblah are all in relation to the german blur ram. bolivian rams are very different looking fish, much easier to look after. personally though, id go for a nice rare pair of apistos. opposite to you, im not a fan of the apisto that won fish of the month, looked very plain compared to other apistos ive seen. macmasteri look great, and im sure theres plenty of others other than the standard cacutoides.

temp bands are precisely that, a range of temps the fish can live in. in the wild, heavy rain, cold(er) seasons will temporarily reduce water temps. if you kept GBR's at 22C you wouldnt have them very long. they wouldnt be healthy, they wouldnt grow properly, they wouldnt act properly. its just a low temp that they sometimes have to deal with in the wild. if i was keeping GBR's again i wouldnt look at anything under 26C minimum. bolivians and apistos are more forgiving.

really only a 135 litre. lookls like a typical 3 footer at 190litre?