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Filter, or no filter?

  • Filter.

    Votes: 4 80.0%
  • No filter.

    Votes: 1 20.0%

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    5

PheonixKingZ

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Hello TFF people!

Recently I have been seeing a lot of people on YouTube (And I know that information on YouTube can not be trusted), not using filters in their tanks. Is this a good idea? I mean in my 10 gallon tank, I have a Tetra 2-10 gallon filter. It is pretty big and bulky, so I was wondering if I should go without.

I know that filters not only keep the water clear, they also oxygenate the water for the fish.

In tanks (aka Walstad method tanks) they have no filters, and they tanks still thrive.

Also, I have been wondering. You watch professionals aquascapers (James Findley, etc.) make theses amazing tanks!..but you never see a filter, do they use sumps? Or no filter at all? :)

Thank you for your time!
 
All tanks should have an established biological filter to ensure there is no ammonia or nitrite in the water.
 
Then how do the "Professionals" not use any filters? :)
 
Some people rely on plants to keep ammonia levels low. However, you need lots of fast growing plants and good lights.
 
So pro aquascapers dont use filters?

Just YouTube "The Green Machine" and you can see James Findely aquascape some pretty sick tanks. :)
 
A lot of people that set up plant tanks and photograph them, have a filter on the tank and add the fish a day before they take pictures. When they actually take the pictures, they remove filters, heaters and anything else that isn't natural, then take pictures. After that they remove the fish and redo the tank.
 
There is no quick answer to your initial questions. Each aquarium is biologically unique, and what you put in the aquarium will have an impact on water chemistry and the biological system.

I would not advise most people to not have some type of filter on an aquarium. But the fact remains that if the aquarium is biologically established and balanced as it should be, there is no need for a filter. I had a 10g tank for over a year with no filter. But it now has a single sponge filter and I prefer that for clearer water. Note, I said clearer, not cleaner, as these are two very different things.

In any aquarium that is biologically mature/established/balanced, the substrate is the bed for the largest colonies of bacteria, not the filter. And you can do without a filter because of this. Having plants helps, even if just floating which are fastest at taking up ammonia/ammonium and organics. But the key is balanced. Most of us put far more fish into an aquarium than the system can actually support on its own. Here the filter helps, though the situation is still a problem. Never expect the filter to handle things in such situations; that is only sitting on the edge of a cliff waiting to fall over in disaster. Filters can only do so much, which is why many of us on this forum keep saying that larger filters or more filters does not have any benefit. If the tank is overstocked or maintenance is inadequate, no amount of filters is going to fix the problem.

You mention Walstad method tanks. If you read Diana's book and articles you will see that her method has some extremely important criteria from the outset. First, lots of plants. Second, minimal fish load. Most of us put way more fish in a given aquarium than Diana would ever remotely suggest.

Surface disturbance to promote a proper gas exchange (oxygen in, CO2 out) is important, but here again the number of fish is key. Plants respire the same as fish and many species of bacteria, using oxygen and producing CO2. During photosynthesis--which occurs only in daylight when (and if) the light is of sufficient intensity to drive photosynthesis--plants take up CO2, and as a byproduct of photosynthesis oxygen is released through the roots primarily and the leaves. This is fine during the day, but at night when photosynthesis ceases the CO2 is no longer being taken up, and it can easily accumulate to dangerous amounts. This is when the surface disturbance is critical, or the fish load is very low so there is no problem.

All of these aspects may have credibility, but the problem with people watching YouTube videos is that you can get the wrong idea. Some of the posters are frankly frauds as they have little if any actual intelligent knowledge of the biology/botany/chemistry. Others may have the knowledge, but they fail to properly get across the whole picture. As I pointed out above, one has to understand the whole story before diving in. Every principle of aquarium keeping may have value but none of them is stand alone. Without understanding the whole issue, running off on a tangent is not likely to work, and usually means dead fish, dying plants, and giving up.
 
That makes sense @Colin_T. And that was very informative @Byron!

So in short, you can have a tank without a filter, and it will be ok. But you really should have a filter. :)
 
So in short, you can have a tank without a filter, and it will be ok. But you really should have a filter. :)
A lot of fish ponds don't have filters but they do turn green due to algal blooms in spring and summer. Most ponds also have a much larger volume of water and smaller number of fish, compared to an aquarium.

If you have a big tank with lots of plants and a few small fish, and the fish are only fed a little bit once or twice a week, then a filter is not essential. However, it is risky and too much food or a power failure, which stops the lights, can wipe out the tank.

Unless you have significant experience in keeping fish and aquatic plants, I do not recommend keeping fish without a filter. A filter will help keep the water cleaner and allow you to keep more fish in the same volume of water.
 
So pro aquascapers dont use filters?
You need to be careful about what people do and why they do it.

As an example my hobby (one of them) is keeping tropical fish. In my case I am very clear about what I want to achieve which is to create the best possible environment for my fish. Now what do my fish want? (I am going to use my S American forest tank as an example). They want
  1. Clean water
  2. Appropriate water parameters
  3. Plenty of places to hide (which includes floating plants) for the fish I have
  4. A stable environment
Here are some things they don't need or care about
  1. A giant pair of hands mucking about in their home at regular intervals
  2. A change of scenery. They don't get bored we do. And changing things up causes stress, for some of the fish I keep it forces them to re-establish the pecking order: i.e. dominance struggles
  3. Algae. This doesn't bother the fish at all - its the owners that don't like it. In fact the forest fish would much rather have murky green water than crystal clear water with bright lighting
  4. Bright light
  5. CO2
  6. Medications
Ok I could go on. One of the reasons I don't go on planted forums or scapers forums is I get really mad when people get advice on how to treat their stressed fish, and their first response is "I can't do that, it will affect my plants". In terms of my objectives if the fish need it and it kills the plants, then so be it - I can find other plants that will work, but I won't compromise my fish for the look I am trying to achieve (or the competition I want to win).

I am not suggesting that all scapers (or planted tank owners) are bad people, but we need to understand that some people do everything in their tanks based on what their fish need. This does not mean an ugly tank, but they won't care if it does. Others use fish to enhance the appearance of their art - and I hate that. They won't mention how often they have to medicate their fish, or in the worst case get rid of them and bring in a batch of new fish for the photo shoot / webcast / competition.

Sorry - I didn't actually intend to go off on a rant, but it is worth noting that pro aquascapers are not necessarily committed fishkeepers. Its cool when they are, but there is no guarantee they have the slightest interest in the well being of the fish ...
 
Well said seangee, I concur 100%.

I am on some plant forums, and as Colin mentioned earlier in this thread, the emphasis on plants often means no fish in the tank normally. These are aquatic gardens, not homes for fish. This was one of my objections to the popular tanks of Amano...I have never seen one that really provided a suitable environment for the fish. They are works of art, and mechanically they probably function well (water quality, etc). But they are not an environment for most of the fish.

Freshwater fish have evolved to function in very specific environments, and they "expect" things in and of that environment. Just because they are fish we can't (in most cases) hold in our lap and pet does not mean they should be denied proper care. They have as much right to this as any other pet.
 
Pheonix, the reason there is no filter in those tanks is because it is a balanced ecosystem. It is quite obvious he [the youtuber] has called ADA eco-service. Quite expensive but nice pamper for your fish. My evidence is the fact that he has a light screen which is a patented ADA product.
 
The 'dirty' truth about filters is they just make water look clearer, but not cleaner. Detritus trapped inside continues to decay and pollute the water. It does however provide a platform for beneficial biology as food (ammonia/nitrite) is constantly delivered. It also promotes water circulation that distributes nutrients, reduces thermal gradients, and promotes gas exchange (CO2/O2).
As mentioned, most tanks will do better with some filtration but you don't need a large canister filter on your nano tank!
------
I also participate on a planted tank forum. As mentioned, many planted tanks are plant habitats and not necessarily fish tanks! As for me, I've always been a fishkeeper and only added plants to better naturalize and aid in water purification. What bothers me some is that some folks that have fish in their planted tanks get too focused on plants with high fert levels, bright light, and CO2 with seemingly total disregard for the fish. It borders on abuse. Too many times I've read of CO2 regulator failures killing all the fish!
------
Okay, back to filters - most tanks should have one regardless of absolute necessity. Same for heaters. By the way, I wonder why some people unplug heaters in the summer. Don't they understand how a thermostat works? <rhetorical>
 
Okay, back to filters - most tanks should have one regardless of absolute necessity. Same for heaters. By the way, I wonder why some people unplug heaters in the summer. Don't they understand how a thermostat works?
At the risk of sending you to sleep again here is why mine is turned off :
I grew up in the tropics (where everyone has aircon) and now live in the UK, where almost nobody does. I'm not a fan of hot weather and the last few summers have been hot, but I figured if everyone in the UK / N. Europe installs aircon its probably not going to help with climate change or energy consumption. My community tank is set at 24C. Last week the room temperature never got below 28 - so the heater would never have come on. But it is the UK and we do still have rainy and cold days even in mid summer. This week the same room is at a temp of 23 as long as I keep the windows open. That would make my heater come on when the tank drops to room temp. Then the tank lights will come on and raise the temp to 25ish. (its 24.4 as I type).

Hopefully the cool respite will hold into the weekend as rain is forecast for tomorrow - but the heat will come back. Many people from warmer climates don't realise just how effective houses in cooler climates are at retaining heat. As soon as I close the windows tonight the internal temp will start climbing well above the outside temp just because of how much heat is "stored" in the wall and ceiling cavities. So when I get up in the morning the tank (and the room) will be back up to 26 although it will only be 18 outside at the same time. Leaving all the windows open all day will allow the room to drop back to 23 (and the tank to 23.5 if I partially open the lid).

So the heater stays off. After all it is the UK. In 4-6 weeks we'll all be back to complaining about the cold and the fact that we "never had a summer" this year. Yeah I suppose I should just turn the thermostat down to 22 but unplugging it just seems the easier option :)
 

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