Angelfish With Red Outline At Base Of Fins - Septicemia Feared

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Two of my angelfish have had red at the base of their pectoral fins and red lines at the base of their fins for a little over a week now.

Tank size: 200 litre

pH: 7.4

ammonia: 0

nitrite: 0

nitrate: 40 ppm (prior to water change)

These water levels were taken three days ago. I will be checking them again today and will update this thread.

kH: Not tested.

gH: Not tested.

tank temp: Usually 80F. Increased to 84F over last few days as I have read this may help with anything bacterial.

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):

Four angel fish in total. One we have had for 6 to 7 months. He appears completely healthy at this point.

One is very young (an inch long) purchased two weeks ago. He has seemed fine until today, but now has slight redness at the base of his pectoral fins. I foolishly did not quarantine this fish. When I go to the store to buy medication today, I will check the tank he came for in case of signs of any other fish suffering.

The two really sick fish have redness at the base of their pectoral fins. This appeared first (as much as two weeks ago). Now red lines at the bass of their dorsal and anal fins have appeared. Their also seems to be some redness in the dorsal fin of one of them, but it's hard to be sure because of it's colouring.

One of the fish has these lines primarily at the top and bottom of it's body.

Another one has them around the whole outline of his body.

Both of the really sick fish are still feeding, but they take longer to come to the surface than they used to. Both of them spend most of the day in little hiding spots behind plants. They used to be constantly exploring.

A bit more background:

We had five angelfish in total. One of them got HITH, which I treated with a seven day (two dose) medication. I was too late and after several days of not feeding at all I had to euthanise this fish. I treated the whole tank with all fish in and followed up with a 50% water change. No other fish have sign of HITH.

One of the fish laid eggs (not fertilized), and following this two of them kept fighting. I removed one of them to a hospital tank temporarily, and am leaving her there for now as she has no signs of redness. This fish is probably the sister of one of the sick ones (from same tank, same colours) which is partly what alerted me to the fact that is was not just colour change in the sick fish.

We then brought the small one and added to the tank bringing the total in the 200 litre back to four.

Volume and Frequency of water changes: Usually 25% changes once a week. We made the one 50% change only following the HITH medication.

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: I used interpet anti internal bacteria treatment and finished this three days ago. Then put carbon back in and did water change. This did not seem to help at all. I use tetra dechlorinator and have since the beginning. I always use this on the water in the bucket and then add to the tank. The filter media is standard for a Fluval U4 (two sponges, two carbon pads which were removed during medication and stored wet, a central container of zeolite).

Tank inhabitants: Four angelfish (fifth still in isolation / hospital tank). 16 Dannios which all appear healthy. 2 very active bristle nose plecos. Three rock shrimp which seem fine... feeding and shedding.

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): Only the small angelfish that was to replace the HITH victim. This small one only just developed redness at base of pectoral fins yesteday. Still swimming and looking around all the time.

Exposure to chemicals: Hopefully none. I did read about air freshers being a worry, so we have removed a spray type from our hall. It was through two doorways and approximately 18 feet from the tank. Removed three days ago and no sign of improvement since.

Digital photo (include if possible): Have not been able to get any that show the lines so far. Will try agin today.

I think that is everything.

To summarise medication so far:

HITH medication was used to treat a different fish prior to the red lines appearing. Then performed 50% water change and put the interpet anti internal bacteria medication in.

Please advise on the best medication to use.

Last night I read on some old forum posts and elsewhere on the internet that this could be septicemia. I am however fairly certain that these red lines (and definitely the redness at the base of the pectoral fins) began in all about ten days ago. I have read that septicemia is a quick killer, and therefore hope that means my fish have something different as they are still feeding and do not appear close to death.

I am hoping that medication from a shop will do, but we will consider vet fees if this is the only thing to do.

All advice much appreciated.

Please help save Tom, Jerry the 2nd, Sid and Thelma! :)

Edit: I just thought I should add a note about feeding. Usually it's pellets and flakes, with frozen blood worms or brine shrimp twice a day. Algae wafers and cucumber also go in for the Plecos and shrimp, but the fish pick at the wafers too.

I used to use live food from the LFS, but stopped about four weeks ago after finding their brine shrimp bags seeming rather unclean, and I never perfected a way to drain the water off.

I have been trying to get them to eat pellets soaked in tank water with a little powdered vitamin tablet added over the last week. I think all the fish have had some vitamins, but it's hard to tell with those Dannios being so quick.
 
Here are two pictures of one of the sick fish.

In one you can see the redness at the base of pectoral fins, and in the other you can just about make out the red lines.

The other sick fish has slightly more vivid lines around the whole body.

ThelmaFins.jpg


ThelmaLines.jpg
 
New water tests:

PH: 7.4

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate : Between 0 and 5.0 PPM. I know that 0 is supposed to be nigh on impossible, but I swear even after the full five minute wait, the colour in the tube does not have enough orange even to quite be 5.0 PPM. This is only a few days after a water change, and I guess the tank is really fairly lightly stocked (only one angel is fully grown).

I don't really want to trush the LFS recommendation on medication, so I think I will go there this afternoon and check the tank our newest angel came from and just see what medication is available.

I feel this is a really critical time and embarking on the WRONG medication over the next week could result in the end for our poor fish... so I am not going to medicate until absolutely certain.

*fingers crossed*
 
I found the tank that the fish came from now stocked with different species.

The people in the shop got their more knowledgeable guy, and he told me that they have all been sold. That tank is linked to a group of others, and there seem to still be healthy angelfish in shared water. This is the Henlow Koi Carp company, and overall they seem to be on the more trustworthy side of LFS.

To begin with the guy told me it sounds like stress / water quality issues, but he said it may be a bit more serious and said that serious internal problems is more vet territory. I am going to take a water sample in for them to test tomorrow.

I hope between advice on these forums and what the fish store advise tomorrow I will be able to work out the best medication.

One of the big decisions to make is whether to treat the fish in the 200 litre tank... or take the seemingly healthy angel out of my 30 litre hospital tank... and put the two very sick ones in there for treatment.

Then I will be gambling on the 200 litre not being filled with the infection itself.

It's all certainly not a very pleasant thing to deal with.

Poor fishes! :(
 
Sharply defined lines, especially near where the dorsal meets the body on lighter colored angels is stress. If it radiates out towards the fin or in towards the body it is a bacterial issue. This often has a streaked or fan sort of pattern to it. A sharply defined line that looks like a pen is nothing to worry about bacterially, being cichlids I would imagine there is some aggression occurring, especially if you have some hiding.

With the HITH issue; what made you come to that conclusion, and what medication did you use to treat the suspected HITH?
 
Sharply defined lines, especially near where the dorsal meets the body on lighter colored angels is stress. If it radiates out towards the fin or in towards the body it is a bacterial issue. This often has a streaked or fan sort of pattern to it. A sharply defined line that looks like a pen is nothing to worry about bacterially, being cichlids I would imagine there is some aggression occurring, especially if you have some hiding.

With the HITH issue; what made you come to that conclusion, and what medication did you use to treat the suspected HITH?

I will be so happy if it really is nothing so serious as I have feared. :)

The red lines look exactly as though they were drawn with a pen.

There was quite a lot of fighting between two of the angelfish in the tank. One of them is currently in an isolation tank lagely for that reason.. and luckily, as she looks healthy and has no signs of illness.

On the previous HITH: The fish had a depression in the side (about 5 mm) that I believed was just a natural change at the time. She also had a small white patch develop on the dorsal fin. I thought that might be white spot, but things I read indicated that white spot is much smaller and that there would likely be more than one patch. Later on she stopped feeding, and the hole became deeper. She then developed a small (1.5 mm) hole behind the gill on the left side. She began to swim at an angle, and sometimes circle. She did not eat for over a week and very rarely moved from the bottom of the tank.

I must admit I cannot be sure it was HITH. I searched on this forum a lot and elsewhere online and it seemed the most likely thing.

I treated with 'Octozin' according to the standard instructions, including carbon removal and all.

Thankyou for answering Tolak. I really appreciate any help I can get with this :)
 

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