Ammonia Up,ph Down

[rabbut]

Something in the tank has to be pulling the pH down, or the hardness in your tap water is non-existant, either way... What decor do you have in? Do you know what your GH and KH readings are from the tap?

If the water is extreamly soft, the symptoms could tie with lack of electrolites in the water... This is fairly uncommon unless you are using neet RO, distilled or mineral water in the tank though, and isn't something I have ever come across personally, even when diliberatly softening water for fish breeding, with very soft local tap water and RO coctails...

My gut reaction to recent readings was a dodgy test kit, but you have said the pH from the tap was 7.2, so that ruled that out..

Is it the upper, lower or wide range pH kit you have? Also, what is the most and least values the kit goes to?

All the best
Rabbut

 

[jimmyringo]

The only decor in the tank is a couple of wee ornaments that the children bought(a bridge and a boat)that have been in for at least a year.Nothing else besides fake plants.
Have no idea of Gh and Kh but i know that i live in a hard water area.As for the test kit,it appears ok.I tested the tap water again and it reads 7.2.

I am using the low range pH.Lowest limit is 6 and i think it goes up to 7.6(i'm at work so i'm not sure).I have the high range as well.

Haven't had time to clean the filter yet,so thats probably next.

 

[rabbut]

Right... That is very unusual... Any chance you can have the KH tested anywhere? Do you know if your water is hard due to permanant or temperary hardness? Put another way, do you get a lot of deposits at the bottom of your kettal e.t.c?

I suppose that a build-up of mank in the filter could have lead to the pH crashing, but the filter would need to be pretty bad for a long while for that to occur, especially in a hardwater area... How often do you vac the gravel usualy?

All the best
Rabbut

 

[jimmyringo]

I vac the gravel every time i do a water change(usually once a week).I did start feeding frozen food(tropical quintet) once or twice a week a couple of months ago,and with the exception of the bloodworm,which goes down a treat,i've found it to be quite messy,so there could well be a bit of 'mank' in the filter.Whether theres enough to lower pH,who knows???I'll go at it tonight in the hope that it might improve things.

As for water hardness,i really don't know much.If this was a problem,wouldn't it also be a problem for other fishkeepers in my area.My brother-in-law lives round the corner,and has no probs with his tank.

Anyway,for now,i think the filter is the next step.If that doesn't work,it's rip the tank out and give up!!!!!!(only joking.........i think)

 

[rabbut]

If a filter clean dose not work, there are a few more drastic things you could try, like putting the fish, filter and heater into a bucket and stripping the tank, thuroly cleaning everything, and "vinegar drop testing" all your decor, before starting off again with a fresh load of water.

You would want to drop aclimate the fish into the "new" tank though, to avoid pH shock. Once all is set-up again, move the heater and filter across and then use an airline and valve to add about 2 drops per second to the bucket to gradually bring the bucket's pH upto that of the tank over a couple of hours before moving the fish across.

ATM, the root caurse of the low pH to me is a mistery, as it should be constant at or close to that of the tap water by now, even with soft water. You're not particularly heavily stocked, and have been doing a lot of waterchanges...

All the best
Rabbut

 

[jimmyringo]

Right here we go.Firstly,i haven't posted in a few days as my sister-in-law was called for a double lung transplant and we've obviously been a bit busy.

Anyway,the short story is....I cleaned the filter and it didn't make much difference.So I then did a 75%(ish) water change.The water i was adding was 7.2pH.Minutes after the change i tested the tank water pH....still 6.So i removed all ornaments,leavin me with a bare tank apart from a couple of plants.At this point i was called away for a few days because of the transplant.My brother-in-law was to keep an eye on my tank.

So i return to find that my pH has risen to 6.8.Great i thought.Until i find out that my brother-in-law added 2 teaspoons of bicarbonate of soda !!!! Firstly the pH rise killed my final cory.Secondly,i don't know what to do now.The pH this morning was 7.6 !!!

How does bicarbonate of soda affect my tank.And is there anything i can do now to stablise my pH ?

EDIT-pH at 2 0'clock this afternoon was back to about 6.6.


ps. If he wasn't over 6ft i'd slap him

 

[rabbut]

Well, actually, him adding the bicarb may have answered a few quiestion I obvioulsy wouldn't have advised messing with it, because of the risk, but it has told me that something in the tank ATM is dragging down the pH... Bicarb should raise the KH, pulling up the pH and STABILISING it. The fact that it has dropped off again with 2tsp in a 30g that is understoked tells me something is outputting a lot of acidic waste and "consuming" the KH.

Is there no way ATM that there is any detruits pockets left in the tank?
Am I right in thinking that you only have gravel and plants in ATM?
Are the plants in good condition?

Bicarb of soda, as above, pulls the pH up, by adding the the carbonate hardness of the tank. Due to the pH scale being logarithmic, it won't take too much at pH 6 to have a big effect on pH.

All the best
Rabbut

 

[jimmyringo]

All thats in the tank is gravel and plastic plants ,one of which is very old and haggard,so it'll come out this evening.Oh,and a terracotta plant pot(as a cave).

Any ornaments that i took out ,i put in a bucket of water and tested pH regularly to see if it would drop,but its pretty steady,so i think i can count them out as a possible cause.

The only fish left are 10 Red-tailed Rasboras and 4 Cardinals.

Thanks Rabbut.

 

[rabbut]

Gorra be either the plants (unlikely) or the gravel (most likely) that are caursing it. At this point, if the pH is remaining low, I'd be looking at a tank strip-down and reset Make sure you keep the filter wet, and the fish in a COVERED bucket with the filter and heater. Then just strip it down, clean everything thuroghly, replace the gravel and start it up like a new tank with a filter clone. IE, once full, get the heater and filter and fish back in and monior like crazy for a week to ensure it stabilises out as it should. Remember to move the fish across slowly though

Hope your sister-in-law's operation goes well

All the best
Rabbut

 

[jimmyringo]

Hope your sister-in-law's operation goes well

Yeah,it seems to have gone good.She's stable in Intensive Care ATM.She's been very ill,so hopefully this'll be a new life for her.Hooray for organ donors

 

[jimmyringo]

Right,you're not going to belive this.I assumed this would be sorted once i'd virtually emptied and cleaned the tank.My tank now has in it a heater,the filter intake and the filter output(spraybar).No gravel or nothing.I've just done a 70% water change.The water going in was 7.2pH and the pH in my tank is.....6. I could cry!!!!

 

[rabbut]

I'm just about out of ideas, short of trying some coral gravel/crushed coral in the filter... I cannot see what is dragging it down though, there is nothing left to do so...

All the best
Rabbut

 

[backtotropical]

That is very unusual, Jimmy.

What you are experiencing appears to be impossible. There MUST be a reason, its just a case of finding it. Try another 70% change and then test again.

Do you add any chemicals to the tank other than dechlorinator? (sorry if thats already been asked)

BTT

 

[jimmyringo]

No , usually i add no chemicals.However, and bear with me on this,last night, thinking 'what harm can it do',i added a spoon of bicarb.My reasoning being this; my tank is built into a living room unit.The only way to add water is by bringing it in a bucket and then pouring it in by jugfuls(there is not enough space to lift the bucket over the tank)therefore small amounts.So i was thinking that possibly the acidic water in the tank was bringing down the pH of the small amounts of water as they were being added,therefore not giving the pH a chance to rise.This is unlikely i know,but at this stage i'll try anything.Anyway before adding bicarb the pH was 6.Immediately after it rose to 7.This evening,24 hrs later it is still at 7.I'm expecting it to drop ,purely because i'm so used to it happening now,but we'll see what tomorrow brings.

My next move if it does drop is to turn the filter off and do a quick 70% change again.If the pH rises with the filter off,then surely it must be something in the filter dragging it down.Anyway we'll see what happens overnight.

I'm off to Newcastle for a while this week to act as carer for my sister-in-law(as explained in earlier post) so i'll post whenever i can.Thanks for hanging in there on this one guys

 

[jimmyringo]

Just a quick update.Just tested the pH, 48 hrs after adding the bicarb.....and it's still holding at 7.Can i get excited yet???