Ammonia Up,ph Down

[jimmyringo]

I posted this on Tropical Emergencies a couple of hours ago but got no replies,so i'm trying here.

i added 4 cories to my tank yesterday.By this morning they were all dead.All my other fish seem fine.Anyway ,i got the water tested at the LFS and Ph is down to 6 and ammonia is sitting at 0.5.Nitrite is 0 and Nitrate is 10.

Is 50% water changes the way to go?

And what caused this?I have been a bit lax with water changes the last few weeks due to illness(been attached to heart machines after a bit of a scare ) so i've only managed two 15% changes in the last 3 weeks or so.I'll be doing a good bit of maintenance this evening.

 

[rabbut]

Unless this is a tiny tank, two 15% waterchanges sould have been perfetly adiquate to keep it ticking over while you were ill

A 50% waterchange will pH shock your fish if the pH is on 6, so little and often is what you should be doing for a while. 5-10% a day for a week, then double for another week, and if you start at 5%, double again for a further week. After that, go into your usual waterchange regiem.

I don't suppose you know your KH and GH readings do you?
What is your ususal maintanance like?
How big a tank is it?

Hope you are well now

All the best
Rabbut

 

[jimmyringo]

Rabbut,
sorry i don't know my KH or GH,but i know the water in this area is hard.
I usually do about a 20% waterchange each week,and this has kept the tank stable for a couple of years with no problems.this came out of the blue
Its a 30gal(48x15x12) tank.


And healthwise,i was with the doc this afternoon and got the all clear Thanks for asking.

 

[backtotropical]

Hi JimmyRingo,

I assume you don't have your own test kit as you said you took your water to the LFS for testing?

I ask because it would be helpful to know what the test results are of your tap water as compared with your tank water.

If the tank has been running for a couple of years, and you have detectable ammonia, that would indicate that your filter is the problem. Maybe your tank is overstocked? Maybe your filter is too dirty to function properly and simply needs cleaned? Maybe the filter is too small for the tank?

Does the outflow from the filter seem to be as strong as always, or has it become slower?

Then again, it could be the case that your pH has dropped so low, your filter bacteria have stalled or even started to die off (although I believe they don't start to die until you get down to around pH 5.5).

The first thing to do is lots of small water changes as Rabbut said. Also, we need to establish why a mature tank has detectable ammonia readings. I have a feeling this will lead us to your problem.

Cheers

BTT

 

[jimmyringo]

BTT,
I lent my test kit out and never got it back.I've ordered a new one online(API Master) which should be here before the weekend.
The filter seems to be as powerful as ever.I was actually planning to clean it this weekend ( i usually do it every 3 months or so),so i'll make that a definite.Its an Eheim 2213+ and has been on the tank for a couple of years.It should be big enough for a 30 gal tank.
My stock is in my sig below.
Thanks.

 

[backtotropical]

Stocking seems ok. When you clean the fiilter, make sure you clean the filter media in old tank water, not tap water. Did you do that anyway?

Also, its probably best to only clean half the media this time as you have an ammonia problem. Cleaning the whole filter system could exacerbate the situation.

In the absence of a test kit, i won't suggest anything else at the moment. Your action will need to be preventative until the test kit arrives.

Start on the small water changes, and post up the test results of your tap water when you get your test kit. That will give us a better idea what we are dealing with.

Keep the water changes small and frequent. Large water changes may make things worse.

Cheers

BTT

 

[jimmyringo]

Yep,I always clean the media in tank water and i only ever clean half at any time.

What i have discovered is..........::

I have fake plants(i inherited the tank that way and have never considered changing,hopefully someday) and a couple of months ago my wife bought me a lovely fake plant,however,its's circular(almost vase shaped) so has like a hollow centre.I've just removed it,and it appears that a lot of food is making its way into the centre of the plant and rotting there.Would that be a factor.Its being cleaned now anyway.
Thanks again guys.This is much appreciated.

 

[jacko_oafc]

I am no expert, but is 3 months on cleaning the filter right ?
I do mine every 6 weeks ( in water taken from my tank during water change ).

 

[jimmyringo]

I am no expert, but is 3 months on cleaning the filter right ?
I do mine every 6 weeks ( in water taken from my tank during water change ).

I've done it every 3 months for about 4 years with no problems.This particular filters been on for about 2 years and no problems(until now).I'm no expert either,but i'd say it depends on tank size,stocking and how much you feed.But as i say,i'm no expert and certainly could be wrong.

 

[rabbut]

My exturnals don't get touhed for 6 months at a time nowadays, so every 3 months for some will be no problem. My internals when I ran them needed weekly cleans though. Filter maintanance realy depends upon individual set-ups.

You may be onto something there Jimmi with the large ammount of decaying food. Normally you would expect a high nitrate reading with rotting food an a pH crash, but considering the care going into some LFS staff's testing at LFS's Id say the nitrate reading may well be a false low... Draw a sample now and place it into a food bag to be stached untill you get your own tests and check the LFS's value for nitrate in there

All the best
Rabbut

 

[backtotropical]

You may be onto something there Jimmi with the large ammount of decaying food. Normally you would expect a high nitrate reading with rotting food an a pH crash, but considering the care going into some LFS staff's testing at LFS's Id say the nitrate reading may well be a false low...

I agree Rabbut, a high nitrate reading would be expected, and you are probably spot on with your diagnosis of an incorrect result.

This stinks of the first stages of Old Tank Syndrome, low pH, increasing ammonia, high? nitrate, new fish dying straight away whilst existing inhabitants are fine......... (Jimmy, there is a link to a good article on old tank syndrome in my sig below, if you don't know what it is? I think the symptoms will sound familiar)

It sounds an awful lot like the routine maintenance schedule has only been enough by the skin of its teeth, and when the water changes were neglected slightly, it has taken a dive.

Jimmy, when we get you back to where you should be with your tank, i would suggest that your water changes should be increased from 20% per week to 50% per week to make sure this doesn't happen again. (Don't do this just now as the pH swing may kill your fish, stick to small regular water changes until the tank gets back to normal).

Also, when you do your water changes, do you vaccum the dirt out of the gravel?

Cheers

BTT

 

[jimmyringo]

Yeah,BTT,i use a vacuum on the gravel.But,in the last few months, i've started feeding half a cube of frozen food,once or twice a week.I find there's a lot more wastage with this(except for the bloodworms which are gobbled up),which can be quite difficult to get without vacuuming out too much water.Maybe a smaller ,less powerful vacuum will give me more time to hoover the substrate?And cut the frozen back to once a week treats.I think i'm understanding why this happened,which is great for preventing it again in the future.

 

[backtotropical]

If you find there is more waste, try cutting back to 1/4 cubes. You should always aim for no food being left lying in the tank after feeding, as it only causes problems.

Also, how often do you feed the tank?

You say you don't want to take out too much water. What do you think is too much? Water changes are always beneficial (this has exceptions obviously, mainly Old Tank Syndrome). So long as the replacement water is properly dechlorinated and matched roughly to the temperature of the tank water, up to 100% water changes are fine.

This only applies in tanks which receive regular water changes to keep pH and hardness levels in line with the tap water (this is why it doesn't apply with Old Tank Syndrome).

If you find you need more time to hoover the gravel, try partially covering the end of the hose with your thumb. This slows the flow allowing you more time and is easy to control. Just a thought.

I'm glad you are understanding what is going on. If you have any questions, just ask.

BTT

 

[jimmyringo]

Lost another cory this evening.And my 2 albinos look to be on the way out too.And my gourami's not looking too hot.Getting really peed off!!!

Did 10% water change last night,and another 10% tonight.

Not much else i can do?

 

[rabbut]

Nope, a sudden change will do far more harm than leaving them the "stew" Hang in there, it could be that you are bringng the pH up too quick for them (two waterchanges in a day is quicker than I would go in th first week), or if the pH crash was more recent, you could simply seeing the latent signs of shock setting in

All the best
Rabbut