Aggression Question

[kj23502]

20 kenyi 2"
18 Metriaclima Greshakei 2"
and some assorted haps

Would haps work? Oh and KJ I'm only trying to get 15 fish in there not 19.

I didn't say anything about the shark b/c I honestly don't know anything about them.

I personally wouldn't get kenyi as I've heard they are the "devil" and when mature can turn a tank upside down. I've said the greshaki could work, but be aware that they can cause problems...not necessarily that they will, but have the potential. One thing w/certain mbuna is sometimes you don't know until you try.

I wouldn't do haps. They are carnivorous and generally get to big. Mbuna are mostly herbivores/omnivores.

Ok, was just letting you know that 19 is the most I'd put in there safely

 

[fishlover500]

But, Would I be safer to give my male kenyi a female?? and then I'll probably get a pair of snow whites

 

[Soaup]

But, Would I be safer to give my male kenyi a female?? and then I'll probably get a pair of snow whites

Females are always a safer bet.

 

[fishlover500]

So, maybe I'll pick up a kenyi from lfs or this local breeder.

 

[dthoffsett]

But, Would I be safer to give my male kenyi a female?? and then I'll probably get a pair of snow whites

So, maybe I'll pick up a kenyi from lfs or this local breeder.

If you want to add in females for your male kenyi (or any species for that matter), you'll need 3 or more. Mbuna are not pairing fish, they are harem breeders where a male will mate with as many females as he can. If you add just a single female, she'll likely be killed outright, or eventually from the stress of the male constantly bugging her to mate.

 

[fishlover500]

Then, maybe I won't get female kenyi's. My 2 pseudo acei are doing well together though. I'm not sure, it might be 2 females tho.

If I get more females I'll probably get them from the breeder then, because of the price difference.

And, I'll try to get 2 female snow whites when I get them.

 

[dthoffsett]

Then, maybe I won't get female kenyi's. My 2 pseudo acei are doing well together though. I'm not sure, it might be 2 females tho.

If I get more females I'll probably get them from the breeder then, because of the price difference.

And, I'll try to get 2 female snow whites when I get them.

Acei are generally one of the more peaceful mbuna. Remember though, none of your fish are sexually mature, once they are, they're level of aggression will rise.

 

[Soaup]

Do you have any pictures of your tank?

 

[kj23502]

I guess not, Soap

 

[Rick A]

Some questions:
How do you definitely ID males and females of the same species when they are juveniles? - when most people buy them.
How can you be sure that 'peaceful' Malawi species will tolerate their own kind (or similar looking ones) once they are mature? - known as conspecific aggression.

I'm not asking for advice, rather I am posing these questions to fishlover500. I know that if you stock the right male / female ratios (or just females) it can work well, BUT can you be sure you don't end up with 3 males and one female?

Also, even if they are 'peaceful' Malawis, having pairs or more of any single species can run into problems when they mature... In the past, I've had multiples of Yellow Labs and Blue Aceii and have run into serious aggression problems once they are a year or so old.

KJ, I'm not trying to put this person off but have seen numerous posts on forums where some person / LFS guy or other openly advocates buying multiples of a species, without enough consideration being given to what happens once they are all grown up.

I would say that breeding / keeping multiples of same species Malawis is a quite challenging / a big step up from keeping individuals of a species and should be given a lot of thought / research before venturing into.

Some things to consider:
If you want to breed a certain type of fish, keep a single species setup - to avoid hybridisation and aggression to others.
Is the tank big enough to stop conspecific aggression? - may need to be larger than you think.
Is it possible that one species of Malawi will take offence to anything that even ressembles its own species (colours / body markings)? - some will.
Is the LFS willing to take some of them back if it doesn't work out?
Do you have a spare tank to seperate offenders before they damage / kill each other? - this can happen in a matter of hours.

Good luck to those that do, but bad luck for the fish if it all goes wrong...

This site gives an indication of aggression and conspecific aggression levels of the fish it lists, amongst other useful info:

http/www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/

 

[fishlover500]

Sorry no pics I have a hard time taking good pics of tanks even after reading posts about it.

You can't accurately find the genders until they are mature.
I have heard of conspecific aggression and I try not to get fish with colouring too close to the same.
So what your saying is try to get fish that look significantly different and don't buy groups?
I know they can change over night

But it also seems like EVERY malawi tank I've ever seen keeps multiples\
My goal is to have a successful, beautiful malawi setup not to breed
My lfs takes fish back and gives you 1/2 of what you paid
I do have seperate tank for them if they are aggressive

 

[fishlover500]

Just a quick question:

In that link Rick, It shows 4 different yellow labs, 1 is albino, 1 has white belly, and 2 seem to be identicle.
What is the difference between these two:

http/www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1669

http/www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=713

Also I am wondering what is wrong with my yellow lab, not sure of gender but, He does have black anal and pelvic fins
Does this mean anything if he has black fins, as my male kenyi does also. It is only the fins on the bottom of
the fish that are black.

Reason I am asking is because I think it may be a she and she's holding, because it shows no want for food and I think
it mouth looks a bit full, hard to tell though. It occassionally rapidly opens and closes its mouth a few times. Could
someone post pics of their yellow lab when holding then when not.

 

[Rick A]

I'm not saying don't buy groups of the same species. I was highlighting the fact that it can be quite challenging. Some males, like Auratus, won't tolerate another Auratus male, unless the tank was VERY large, and may also have problems with male Blue Johani - they are different species of Melanachromis. If you want to keep a group for breeding you also have to keep more than one or two females as the male will likely kill a single female unless there are more females for him to harass.

Also be aware that in your LFS, for example, there may be many of the same species temporarily sharing the same space, but you have to remember that it is only 'temporary' and should not always be considered for the long term. Some species will happily coexist together through adulthood, but many will not tolerate others of their own kind once they mature - may take almost a year to find this out...

As for the difference in the Yellow Labs in the links, they are from different parts of lake Malawi and did look to have slightly different body shapes. Whether or not you can order a specific type from your LFS is quite another thing - I doubt it somehow. My LFS has quite a good supplier, but its still a bit hit-and-miss as to whether they will have something very specific. In the past, I have waited for many months for a certain fish and sometimes it just doesn't work out.

It does sound like your female is holding - not eating is one of the symptoms - as long as you have plenty of hiding places for the fry when they hatch, a few should make it through.

I hope things go well for you and the fishes

 

[fishlover500]

Thanks for info, I'll keep that in mind, just one question. Do females pelvic and anal fins turn black??
sord of like this one :
http/www.aquaticconcepts.com/images/yellow%20lab.jpg

(this is not a pic of mine but the fins are sort of black like this)

 

[fishlover500]

That yellow lab died! I have no idea why because he wasn't a main target for getting picked on either. Any ideas?
For about a day before he passed away he was sort of laying on the ground or hovering just above the ground and he didn't move much