A New Stocking Plan.

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stanleo

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Is this crazy?

55gl pH 7.6 kH 4, 2 canister filters fluval304 and 305, fish less cycled.

20 cardinal tetras
10 rummynose tetras
10 peppered corys
10 otocincles
1 BN plecos
3 pearl gouramis
12 nerite snails
20 grass shrimp
5 assassin snails

Is this overstocked badly?
I want to introduce all of this at the same time. Is that crazy? What should I give up?
There is a link to my tank journal in my sig if you want to know more about the tank. Or ask me :)
 
Hmm, it doesn't seem too bad, a few things though,
I would get 20 of one tetra instead of 20 and 10 of two groups. 30 tetras all up will be a bit crowded. :/
Maybe 10 and 10 if you must have both species.
Also, not positive but I'm quite sure assassins will eat your nerites lol.
Make sure you get 1 male and 2 female pearl gouramis btw.
If you cycle your tank properly, maybe do to 4ppm, you can add all at once but I would add half the stock, then one group at a time. It's just a matter of whether all those fish can create more than 4 parts per million of ammonia and Hereford create excess ammonia and therefore toxins. The filter will of course catch up in due time, but it's best to avoid that course and add slowly. :)

ie,
Add 10 cardinals + 10 rummynose/ 20 of one species
Add 10 Cories
Add 3 pearl gouramis
I would wait to add the rest as they need algae and matter to have grown in the tank to feed on ( and supplements like wafers and veg )
Also your pearl gouramis might eat your glass shrimp.
 
I'd say thats definitely too much stock to be added at once. Not sure about the quantities of fish though, sorry. 
 
10 ottos is not a good idea in a tank that size as they would eat up all the available algae in no time and most likely end up starving to death unless you condition them to feed off vegetables like courgette slices or similar. 
algae wafers can be suitable but the other fish will get to them first.
 i would say 5 at the most.
 
Not sure about the fish stocking levels but not a good idea to keep any other snails with assassin snails as they will predate them, even snails bigger than themselves.
I think if you follow TTA's fishless cycle you should be able to stock all at once as stocking gradually will cause mini-cycles.
Haven't kept any of those fish so can't advise on numbers there tho I can say overstocking doesn't just mean a lot of waste it means overcrowding too.
 
I agree with comments from other members, but I do see a couple issues I'll mention.
 
First, the parameters.  As you and I have been discussing by PM, you need to get the GH and that is in the works.  A pH of 7.6 is a bit rough on cardinals and rummys, but as I've mentioned in PM's this may lower esp with diffused CO2 and substrate organics.
 
To the fish.  I would increase the rummys to 15 or more.  I have a group of about 20 mixed Hemigrammus bleheri (the common or Brilliant rummynose) and the false rummy Petitella georgiae together in my 115g.  These species remain close-knit, rarely separating as individuals, and love to cruise the tank from end to end.  Not only will the fish be more settled the more there are, but you the aquarist will benefit too from their natural interactions and habits.  And you have the space in a 55g.
 
You could reduce the cardinals to 15, but 20 is fine too, either way, up to you.  I do agree on the comments of others re the otos, etc.  IU would not get both Bristlenose and otos as both are after the same natural food.  Are these intended for algae-control, or do you like the fish themswelves?  This makes a difference.
 
On adding the fish, I too would do it in stages.  But always complete species, so all 15-20 of the rummys together, etc.  Add the gourami last which should help with their territorial nature.  And definitely one male with two females.
 
Byron.
 
Thanks everyone! You have given me good food for thought.
 
My pH did lower to 7.2 I just checked it. I was just at the LFS and they have everything on my list except the rummynose and the otos. They do however have about 20 harlequin rasporas and a bunch of albino von rio tetras. They also didn't have any pearls but they have a few dwarfs and I do like them as well, though I will have to pick one male and 2 females.
 
I am on about 3 weeks of the cycle and I already have a big growth of green algae, its on the glass, the substrate, rocks, wood and some of the plants. The white substrate is almost entirely green so I don't want to wait too long for the algae eaters. And I have pest snails now too.
 
So what about this
 
3 dwarf gouramis (1 male 2 females)
10 harlequin rasporas
15 cardinals
10 albino von rios
5 otos (I have a place I can order these from)
6 peppered corys
1 BN pleco (I do really like that fish)
5 assassin snails
And I want some kind of shrimp. Any suggestions on that?
 
As for the GH and KH the LFS only had the crappy strips but I figure it was better than nothing at the moment. They read 80ppm KH and between 60 and 120ppm GH.
 
If you want gourami, and since you have the space (55g), I would pass on the dwarfs and wait for the pearls.  Dwarf gourami are a big risk for iridovirus; Dr. Neale Monks has frequently advised to stay away from this species unless you can obtain it direct from a reliable breeder, and I think this is very sound advice.  Most stores will likely get this fish from SE Asian hatcheries and I'm sorry but that is a real risk.
 
If the Von Rio Tetra is Hyphessobrycon flammeus (another common name is Flame Tetra), this is fine.  I'm not a fan of albino fish, but that is just me.  This is your tank.
thumbs-up.gif

 
I would hold off on the otos until the tank is established; same for Bristlenose actually, though these might have been weaned onto prepared foods but otos usually have not and many arrive near-starved and need natural food.  The biofilm that will develop on all surfaces like plant leaves is their food source so wait 2-3 months.  The green on ths substrate...cyanobacteria or algae?  May need to reduce the light intensity.
 
You can increase the corys; here again, the more the better.  Species can be mixed; some aquarists object to this, but that also is up to you, the point being that they all get along.  I have 12 species in my 115g.  I try to get 5 minimum of a species, though for various reasons this is not always possible.
 
Hope this is of some help.
 
Byron.
 
I changed it today from 8 hours to 6 hours for the photoperiod and if that doesn't work I am going to take out one of the bulbs.
 
I like the idea of getting 2 species of corys. the LFS has peppered and sterbia.
 
I'm usually with you on albinos but I like the von rios (also called flame tetras) albino form. They have the red eyes but they also have a nice orange color to the body with bright red fins unless they are stressed then they are dull.
 
And I agree with you too on the dwarf gourami, I had one I loved that died of that about 2 years after I got him but the pearl stayed healthy until I had to give her up. The problem there is I haven't seen pearls here at any of the pet stores so the only way I could get them is to order and if they don't send the right genders I and they are screwed. But I can wait.
 
The green on the substrate is I think algae and not cyanobacteria. The algae is green and long now, some strands are an inch long. My nitrates through this cycle are sky high so that coupled with the strong lighting is definitely having an effect on the algae. I am going to have to change 90% of the water when it is done.
 
And you have been very helpful!
 
stanleo said:
I changed it today from 8 hours to 6 hours for the photoperiod and if that doesn't work I am going to take out one of the bulbs.
 
I like the idea of getting 2 species of corys. the LFS has peppered and sterbia.
 
I'm usually with you on albinos but I like the von rios (also called flame tetras) albino form. They have the red eyes but they also have a nice orange color to the body with bright red fins unless they are stressed then they are dull.
 
And I agree with you too on the dwarf gourami, I had one I loved that died of that about 2 years after I got him but the pearl stayed healthy until I had to give her up. The problem there is I haven't seen pearls here at any of the pet stores so the only way I could get them is to order and if they don't send the right genders I and they are screwed. But I can wait.
 
The green on the substrate is I think algae and not cyanobacteria. The algae is green and long now, some strands are an inch long. My nitrates through this cycle are sky high so that coupled with the strong lighting is definitely having an effect on the algae. I am going to have to change 90% of the water when it is done.
 
And you have been very helpful!
You're welcome.  The soil is the cause of the algae and ammonia.  As I believe I mentioned earlier, several sources caution about fluctuating conditions with soil during the first few months.  This is the main reason I have never bothered with it.  B.
 
Well the tank is set up and has the fish in. I don't have the same numbers as in the original post so I wanted to update it. I might have went a little overboard, let me know what you think.

1 angelfish
3 pearl gourami (1 male, 2 female)
7 harlequin rasporas
8 albino Von rios ( they and the rasporas seem to school together. I think it's because they have a similar body type, size and movements. That could just be a novice observation though.
5 otocincles
10 corys (6 peppered, 2 julii, and 2 sterba. Started with 6, 3 and 3 but 2 died
1 clown pleco
 
Its quite a heavy stock to me. But I think you will be ok, only real issue is the corys you would be much better off with 10 of the same species.
 
Wills.
 
I would keep a close eye on the angelfish, over time.  If this happens to be a male, it may take a dislike to the gourami, especially the male, as males are highly territorial for both cichlids and gourami.
 
On the corys, I know there are aquarists who do not like to mix species in the same tank.  The only fish-related reason for this is that some may/will cross-breed, and as responsible aquarists we must be careful not to introduce hybrids into the hobby should we sell or give away such offspring.  I won't go into all the reasoning behind this, just mention the issue.  I have always (over 20 years now) maintained mixed species of corys in my larger tanks.  I have near 40 now in my 115g, with some 12 species represented.  Some have spawned, and I even have fry that survived predation in this tank.  I do see cross-species behaviours that are the preliminaries to spawning, so I've no doubt this might occur with some species.  But within the confines of your own tank, and retaining the fry yourself, I don't see an issue if this should occur.
 
On a side-note, the 150+ recognized species [Fishbase currently lists 159] presently classified in the genus Corydoras are almost certainly not a monophyletic grouping, so the genus is polyphyletic.  This means that some of the species did not descend from the same last ancestor.  In other words, there are several species within the genus that are not that closely related genetically.  In 2003, the ichthyologist M.R. Britto proposed a reclassification of the entire family Callichthyidae (represented currently by the genera Aspidoras, Corydoras, Brochis and Scleromystax) into nine clades or genera.  Subsequent studies on species within these genera have generally accepted this thinking, but considerable phylogenetic study will be needed to finalize it.  The 2011 work by Alexandrou & Taylor followed Britto's concept and includes all species including the "C" numbers.  You can read their study free online; the re-classification is quite interesting and we will have considerable name changes when this is sorted out:
http://www.academia.edu/5890874/Evolution_ecology_and_taxonomy_of_the_Corydoradinae_revisited
 
Some work has confirmed a few changes.  The genus Brochis is now defunct, the three species having been moved into Corydoras for the present.  I say for the present because the authors themselves admit that Brochis will eventually turn out to be a monophyletic genus in its own right, though with some different species.  Thus, the three Brochis species are temporarily moved as they share traits with certain other Corydoras species that will no doubt all be together eventually.  Another change already affected is the transfer of four species out of Corydoras into Scleromystax, namely S. barbatus, S. macropterus, S. prionotos, and S. lacerdai.
 
Byron.
 

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