Stocking recommendations?

[BettaFishGirl]

I looove a Betta sorority, you could add 10-15 female Bettas, them a TON of neon or cardinal tetras, or others, for dither fish.
You could also just do Ember tetras, neon/cardinal tetras, just small schooling fish with great a lot of movement and interest.

 

[Beastije]

I will just post my very recent experience.
I have a 360l tank with 60cm height. I have 40 ember tetras or so, 20 rummynose tetras
I have added 5 juvenile bolivian rams three months ago and I can honestly say neither the embers nor the rummynose behave more stressed as if a predator was present, their swimming patterns are still the same, I did not notice any difference (though I cant really ask the fish). They do not shoal more, do not group tighter, they even eat with the b-rams on the bottom. I am now worried, if you say they stress the shoaling fish, how should I notice that?

I also have 10 or so sterbai corydoras. Just last week a pair formed of my bolivian rams ( I missed that), laid eggs (also missed that), had them spawn, enter the free swimming stage and defend them for 7 days. At the day 8, the pair dissolved (no idea why, I am new to these cichlids). They had no trouble defending against the corydoras and overnight there were no major losses, the wiggling stage was around 50 eggs or so. Way bigger issue was the rummynose swooping in from the above to eat the fry as the b-rams were not good at defending from above.
Again, all 5 bolivian rams are hanging out in a tight group, swimming along the corydoras, venturing up to the top with the tetras. Even in their defending state it was "rush to make this fish go away" but did not involve any nipping, any full on chasing, any deaths and any biting.

 

[vince82]

They do not shoal more, do not group tighter, they even eat with the b-rams on the bottom. I am now worried, if you say they stress the shoaling fish, how should I notice that?

I read about it and saw youtube videos saying this would happen, I did not directly experience that.

in my previous experience I had another 60 gallon tank and there I had bolivian rams and harlequin rasboras with a few corys and otos.
The rasboras shoaled beautifully, always compact, but I don't think it was up to the Rams to cause that. The rasbora reproduced (about a dozen fry making it to juvenile), while the rams never formed a pair. The male liked to defend his area but there was never spawning. It was quite a short experience though, about 6 months, because then life got in the way and I moved, selling everything.
I didn't get into big tanks again until now.

However I did have neons in another tank, again with Rams, and they were just allover the place, no shoaling. And I didn't enjoy that much. Maybe was due to lower numbers (only 10)..

 

[Byron]

I will just post my very recent experience.
I have a 360l tank with 60cm height. I have 40 ember tetras or so, 20 rummynose tetras
I have added 5 juvenile bolivian rams three months ago and I can honestly say neither the embers nor the rummynose behave more stressed as if a predator was present, their swimming patterns are still the same, I did not notice any difference (though I cant really ask the fish). They do not shoal more, do not group tighter, they even eat with the b-rams on the bottom. I am now worried, if you say they stress the shoaling fish, how should I notice that?

I also have 10 or so sterbai corydoras. Just last week a pair formed of my bolivian rams ( I missed that), laid eggs (also missed that), had them spawn, enter the free swimming stage and defend them for 7 days. At the day 8, the pair dissolved (no idea why, I am new to these cichlids). They had no trouble defending against the corydoras and overnight there were no major losses, the wiggling stage was around 50 eggs or so. Way bigger issue was the rummynose swooping in from the above to eat the fry as the b-rams were not good at defending from above.
Again, all 5 bolivian rams are hanging out in a tight group, swimming along the corydoras, venturing up to the top with the tetras. Even in their defending state it was "rush to make this fish go away" but did not involve any nipping, any full on chasing, any deaths and any biting.

You touch on a few aspects here. First off, I think your large--by comparison to most tanks mentioned on this forum, huge--tank has a lot to do with things. And the size of the characin shoals. Fish in such numbers of their own and in spacious surroundings can be expected to be less "bothered" by minor things.

The rams are not "predatory" to these fish. They are only likely to enforce or attempt to enforce their presence if threatened. And aside from the other fish going after the eggs/fry, with the fish you have in this tank there is no threat to the rams. The closest thing would be the cories eating the sinking food that a ram wants. My male Bolivian simply pushed cories aside, though it is debatable how effectively. But they lived together for more than 11 years.

The five juvenile Bolivian Ram may have very serious issues going forward. It depends upon gender--obviously there is at least one male and one female that have paired, the others are not likely male, though age (young) and incredible space makes a very big difference. However, if the "pair" did not/do not bond, which means they accept each other, the male (usually) may overnight decide he's had enough of the female. This played out in my 5-foot long 115g tank. There is no escape in any aquarium for a targeted fish from a male cichlid intent on removing her from "his" space. Not just physical, but the phermones the fish use to communicate cannot be detected by us, but they certainly are read by the fish, and a female can be under serious life-threatening stress just by these.

Things are going well here from what you write. The rams are the "loose cannons," so keep an eye on them. It is the rams themselves that are the likely issue, not their interaction with any of the other fish.

 

[anewbie]

I would like to point out one other thing when commenting on mixing species; the behavior changes as the fishes age. That is not to say you are likely to have problems with bolivian rams and top level shoal fishes given the domains they tend to occupy; but just be aware that as a fish mature its behavior will change. This would be more of a comment if you mix the rams with cory where they tend to occupy the same region. Young rams will not assert themsevles with the cory but as they reach sexual maturity that behavior will change; as they will attempt to establish a domain (dependent on sex); and the cory will generally not respect such boundaries and frequently intrude. This will result in an attack cycle and while cory are amored and not likely to see significant damage from rams it will stress both species making them more suspectible to disease over long periods. With larger cichild (such as angles) i tend to see three cycles of behavior changes; starting with young fishes; the first year after maturity and then later as they get older. The point of this post is don't judge what works by one instant in time; but rather over the life span of the fish and be aware that seemly unrelated issues might in fact be related.