A Lovely Suprise, But...

[Flute]

I have two tanks, and one is a 5 gallon, in which I had 2 female guppies and 3 golden algie eaters. I came home from uni today to find that my parents (having heard me go on about wanting to get a beta for months now) have bought me a beautiful beta, which I was over the moon about. He's absoloutly beautiful and I can't get over how sweet it was of my parents to buy him for me.

However...and here's the problem- after reading a book that says that you can a.) keep beta with other species and b.) should always keep a male with at least one female, they also bought me a female- she's a lovely little thing with gorgeous colouring, and is very docile.

So this is what I would like to ask you guys- is it safe to have all of these fish in one tank, as I've read countless times that you should never keep a male with other species, and definitely never a male and female together.
Saying this, both, especially the male, are very placid and calm with lovely temperments, and no one seems to be bothering anyone. The beta were bought on Monday, and my dad kept an eye on them and says that they've not been fighting, that everything is fine, etc.

I'm still concerned though, and wandering whether I should move the female to my other tank, which in itself presents a problem as I have male gupies and various tetra, and would she need other females for company? I might be able to pursade my dad to take my male guppies, but would she be safe with neon, ember and black widow tetra?

Thank you so much to anyone who can offer some advice <3

 

[Paradise3]

You can keep a male and a female together but only with the correct conditions. For example if you had conditioned them both for breeding or something like that. It might all be fine for now but it's a ticking time bomb so they may eventually fight till death or they could breed. Neither of which you want atm.

Xxx~misscosmo~xxX

 

[lilacamy931]

Hi I can only base from what I have read on here and forums but generally it is a ticking time bomb especially as they are all in a small 5g with not a lot of space to get out of each others way. You say there are two tanks are the guppies in a separate one? (Sorry confused). Hopefully someone will come along and let you know if they have had successful male/female together but from what I have read even if they are the most placid pair as they mature they both or one will turn on the other.

That was a really sweet idea that your parents did for you. Sorry cant help much but hope others are able to assist in this.

 

[Flute]

Thank you so much for the quick replies ^^

misscosmo: Yeah thats what I was afraid of And I definetly dont want either of those out comes! D:

lilacamy931: Sorry if I was unclear ^^' Basically I have two tanks, I'll describe them in more detail as they are now:

5 gallon: Male beta, female beta, 2 female guppies, 3 golden algie eaters (I know that it's severally over stocked now, which is another of my big worries).

16 gallon: 2 Male guppies, 5 black widow tetra, 3 ember tetra, 4 neon tetra, 3 albino corry's, 1 adolfi corry, 2 pepper corry.
My dad is currently setting up his main tank once again, and once his tank is on the go, I'll be transfering the ember and neon tetra and possibly some of the corrys, as my dads tank is much bigger.
I'd move the female to the 16 gallon, but I'm worried that the male guppies would harrass her, or would they leave her alone? And would she need more females (something that I've been wanting to do anyway, I was just waiting for the space).

Also, are the female guppies in the 5 gallon an issue?

Everyone seems placid, and no one is obviously stressed, but I'm worried that they're not particularly happy either.

 

[Honeythorn]

Move all the original fish from the 5 gallon to the other tank asap . Also, find out what species of algae eater you have as some can get quite large and agressive.

Move the female to the main tank. She can do fine on her own, and should not have trouble with the other fish as females have short fins which don't tend to entice others into nipping the way long finned males do.


If your tank is not heavily stocked, then you could get 3 more females to go with her ( they do best either alone or in a larger group, twos and trios tend to cause fights ) if the tank is close to being fully stocked then leave as she is on her own.


Since some of the fish are going into your dad's tank, it will be fine temporarily to add them to your 16 gallon. Do twice weekly water changes of 25- 50% until your father's tank is ready. Since his is bigger I strongly suggest moving the algae eaters and tetras into his tank along with the guppies

Keep the male by himself in the 5 gallon.

Males and females should not be kept together in the same tank unless you intend to breed them . If you keep them together, when they both mature the male will keep on harassing the female, trying to make her mate, chasing her and all sorts. Even when breeding these fish are not gentle, one or either often get chunks ripped out of fins ect.

 

[Flute]

Thanks honeythorn :3 I've moved the female betta and the female guppies over to my bigger tank, (my dad took the male guppies so I wont end up with loads of baby's >.< ), the male betta (named Thor XD Cheese for the win XD), seems a lot happier now, swimming about the whole tank, exploring, etc.

For now I've left the algie eaters in there with him- they don't seem aggressive towarrds him, and he's not to them, but I will be keeping a very close eye on it all. If any signs of aggression do pop up, then I'll move them too. As it is, they stay away from him in their caves, and he stays in his plant away from them ^^

My poor mam thought she done wrong by buying them for me (I'm over the moon about it, just not prepared ), and my poor dad can't understand why I keep insiting that the book he has is wrong. Seriously, they shouldn't be able to print information without checking it first- can you imagine how many people have been keeping groups of females with males because of it? >.<

Once there is a bit more space in my 16 gallon I hope to get some more females to keep her (Freya- I am Norse obsessed apparently XD) company. Once dad gets his tank set up (we're going into town in a bit to buy more stuff for it ^^) then I think he's going to be taking my golden algie eaters from my 5 gallon. Once thats done I'm going to totally revamp that tank for Thor, give him a cocnut cave, more plant coverage etc. and maybe get some pigmy corrys to keep the bottom clean. Does that sound like a better set up?

Thanks once again, and sorry about the long posts! You've all been fantastic ^^ <3

 

[Curiosity101]

That sounds like a much better set-up, but don't get the cories to keep the bottom clean. Get them cause you like them, you'll probably find that they don't due a huge amount to help clean the bottom as they dont eat fish waste, and being fish they obviously create their own. They can help turn sand over...but that's about it.

Also I think that the book should conveniently go missing ...maybe leave a link to this forum in it's place

Oh and just a final note. How long have you had the golden algae eaters...
If they look like this

Often they are sold for small tanks as peacful algae eaters...but this is only true when they're young. As they get older they WILL become territorial and also require some meat in the diet.
Here is a couple of information pages if you're interested - Link 1 and Link 2

 

[Flute]

I've always wanted pygmy corry's, so I'd like them for that reason too ^^' If Thor would be better off on his own though then I'd rather just let him have the whole tank :3 And plant it out as much as possible.
I moved everyone this morning, and then came back this afternoon to discover that he's built a bubble nest So that makes me happy knowing that he's a lot more comfortable on his own, and that seems to have re-assured my mam that he's happy too- the book has made her think that it's cruel to keep him on his own. If anyone wants to know what the book is, it's called "What fish? A buyers guide to tropical fish" by "a team of fishkeeping experts"..... Yeah...ok....

Had a bit of a blond moment with Freya....thought she was dead and upside down...but no, just me being daft and not used to that amount of fin underneath the body ^^' She seems to have setled in too, and I'm looking forward to being able to get a few more females for company. I've been wanting a group of females for a long time now

And you would not believe how annoyed I am about the loaches (though I am at fault for not researching first, I was there and realised I wanted/needed bottom feeders on the spot...something I will never do again). I was told in the shop that these loaches wouldn't get much bigger, that they're not aggressive, that they'd be fine in a 5 gallon. They look like the Chinese Algae Eaters which apparently will most likely grow to 15 cm, and could grow to 28 cm O.O!!!! I'm going to have to try and sort out something with them, as my dad doesn't want them now after hearing about how big they grow. Am quite concerned now and will see if my local pet shop will take them.

Will try and get a picture of Thor and Freya when I can They're probably nothing special compared to what other people have, but I think they're absoloutly stunning
Thor is a deep blue, with a darker head, with a purple sheen on his body, blue fins with red stripes.
My dad was about to buy a different one when he swam into view in another tank, and decided immedietly to go with him ^^
Freya is a lovely little red female with darker markings, and is very calm and already lets me feed her by hand :3

At least this situation has led me to realise that the loaches are problem that I didn't know about before :3

 

[Curiosity101]

Hopefully the male will be happy enough with tank mates. And un obtrusive bottom feeders like pygmy cories are certainly the most likely candidates for that. But do be aware that there is the possibility he will reject any tank mates. As he co-existed with the other fish for awhile I'd say the outlook is good and I think he may be just as happy with the cories (seeing as they live in a totally different area to him).

Great news about the bubble nest and also he sounds very pretty.

And yes you should have researched, but no one is going to hold that against you. Fish shops also have a responsibility to give the correct information.

Oh and just a note on that book. The fish keeping hobby does change, as people understand more and more the 'correct' way of doing things changes.
So depending on how old it is, it could've been 'correct' for it's time.

 

[woodstock]

I tend to stay away from those books. I find them lacking in actual first-person experience, and rather solely data and facts. I don't like that, lol. In a forum like this one, you see everyone's perspective instead of a one-way road.

I've always wanted some tankmates, but I'm too paranoid. Perhaps with a new betta and a new tank (if only...) I would try it out, lol. I'm planning on getting snails in the near future, though. Usually snails don't have issues.

 

[Assaye]

That 5 gallon only has enough space for one betta and 2-3 other very small fish (but I wouldn't recommend it - most fish small enough to go in a 5 gallon need shoals and you don't have space for 7 fish, IMO).

Male and female bettas should never be housed together unless carefully conditioned for breeding (which you shouldn't even think about until you have done major research and have a lot of time and money to spare).

If housed together before then, it is a time bomb, as others have said. It *might* be OK but even if they don't attack each other they'll probably get fairly stressed from being together and may end up getting sick from the stress. If it isn't OK, you end up with a dead fish (or two). In summary - she needs to go somewhere else!

The algae eaters are also a worry - golden algae eaters are usually the gold versions of chinese algae eaters - they get very, very aggressive when older and quite happily kill smaller fish. They also get to about 20cm long and need 4-5 foot tanks for just one. They need a new home as well.

The female betta should be fine in with your community. It is certainly a much better place than with the male betta! She doesn't need any other females (and if you got more, you'd need 4-5 which would overstock your tank)

 

[Curiosity101]

Assaye. Although I would always respect your advice, and the effort you put in. You really do need to start reading the whole thread before replying.

Oh and there is one tiny thing I'd disagree with (or clarify on...) and that's that 5 Pygmy Corys and 1 Male betta is suitable for a 5gal.

 

[Flute]

Curiosity101: He was kept in a community tank in the shop, but as he seems to want to go sit in the caves, I think I'll leave the tank all to him so he can go where ever he'd like I'd love some pigmy's, so maybe in the future They're beautiful little fish, and I dont want to risk them being beaten up, and equally I don't want to stress Thor out

Just had a look at the book, and it was published in 2006... so fairly up to date..ish? >.< Trying to convince my dad not to trust it, and come here instead, and seem to have gotten some where with him as he asked me to post a topic regarding his new tank :3

Thank you for the lovely replies and help that you have given me ^^

woodstock: Yeah I know what you mean- I remember telling my dad when he first got the book that some of the information seemed a bit odd, but no, because it's in a book, it must be right, and because I'm much less experienced in keeping fish that I must be wrong ^^' Tis all good though :3

Assaye: As I posted earlier I have now seperated everybody, and Thor is a lot happier, even building bubble nests. So for now, the biggest problem is sorted.

I'm hoping to stop by my lfs tomorrow and ask them if they're interested in the Chinese loaches. Not hopeful, but if not, then I'll go back to the original shop (much futher away so may take longer) and ask that something be done as they sold them to me under false information. Thankfully not had them for very long, so they're still fairly small.

And as I said before also, I wont be getting any more females until I have the room.

Thanks guys <3

 

[Flute]

Sorry for the double post, but I have a new question ^^' Sorry :3

I've noticed that Thor appears to have a tiny nick on his head, maybe from catching himself on something (there were plastic plants in the tank before I knew he had been bought, and have since thrown them out and put real ones in). I've read that tanks need to be kept very clean to stop any wound from being infected.

So I would ideally like to do a full clean on it- take all the rocks, ornaments and plant out so I can really vac the sand. To do this, would it be best to take Thor out of the tank and hold him in something temporarily like a jug or something?

I did about a 30% water change on Thursday because of how many fish were in the tank, and so is it too soon to do another?
Thanks again <3

 

[Curiosity101]

You can do water changes daily if you can be bothered and it wont affect the fish. So long as you match temperatures and dont literally just dump it in then it wont be a problem for him to be in there. If you just pour it in at one side then if he really finds it's such a problem he can go sit on the other side.

At first you may find he sulks about having water changes done, but they quickly get used to syphons and new water being poured in. Also don't go to all the effort of removing all decor. Things like caves and such it's a reasonable idea cause dirt can collet within it. But with everything else just vac around it.