A Big New Tank - Help On Filter Choice Please!?

Winterlily

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Okay, so I've got the 55 gallon coming! I now have to get a filter for the thing. What's my best choice here? Eheim cannister? If so, which one? Can I get away with 2 HOBs if I can't afford the Eheim? The tank is going to be divided into probably 4-6 sections, either all housing 1 male betta each, or all housing a male Betta each except for one larger section with zebra danios or some small tetras - haven't decided yet. So, I need something that I can turn the flow down for the Bettas, but will be strong enough to get the water moving through multiple dividers. ?? Any help would be appreciate here - I don't know much about anything except HOBs for smaller tanks.

What about heaters? Do you think in this situation (multiple dividers) I should have 2 smaller heaters at each end, or 2 appropriately-sized-for-the-tank heaters, or just one appropriately sized one? Also, any suggestions for brand? I keep reading about Stealth... ?

Thanks ahead of time ... I'd like to do this the best way right from the start.

Samantha
 
get an appropriately sized ehiem proffessional or Ecco if you can, the classic isnt too bad either

get a heater for the whole tank, its gona work out cheaper and do the job just aswell
 
For a 55, I like the Rena Filstar XP2. It is a very reliable and easy to maintain filter IME.
As far as the heater, I would go with 2 if I had the cash for it. Two heatrs that will heat that tank will cost almost double what one will cost. It is like the first 90% of a heater's cost is for the controls, suction cups and the housing and 10% is for the heater itself. The difference between a 300W heater that can handle the tank by itself and a 150W heater that can handle half the load is next to nothing. The redundancy of having 2 heaters is nice to have but you need to look at the cost of going in that direction. My big 120 galolon tank has a 250W at one end and a 300W at the other but most of my smaller tanks only get one heater. Many of them get none at all because they house goodeids that don't need a heater.
 
Personally I'd go for 2 smaller heaters 'just in case' and a decent external filter with a spray bar that goes along the whole length of the tank.
 
If you go for two heaters - you have to make sure you set the temperature controls exactly the same - otherwise only one heater will get used all the time and the other will sit doing nothing. I ended up with 1 small heater from my old tank and a bigger heater that came with my new tank. It took some effort to get them to both come 'on' at the same time and at the right temperature.
 
Eheim Thermofilter
Regards
BigC
This is a significant recommendation because it neatly solves the problem of even heating (I would think) in a tank with several dividers, due to the greater circulation of the heated water by the filter pump.

The only thing is that I have a small quibble with it. I spent some months here reading every thread I could find on filters and heaters and getting into some discussions about them. When you do that you realize that all these top filters and heaters and their maintenance are pretty intertwined and close to each other but that each have distinctive plusses and minuses and little quirks.

The one I discovered about the eheim thermofilters came straight from the mouth of one of their distribution persons. The sensors for the eheim heater unit can be thrown off by salt. Now I'm the last to think of salt as anything that should be finding a way in to most freshwater aquariums on a regular basis, but, (and you would particularly know this from your recent gravel cleaner incident with your betta, winterlily) sometimes its recommended that it be in there for an injury!

The answer I found (and I credit RDD and some others here) was the excellent Hydor Inline series of heaters. These are tubular heaters that just splice right in to the middle of the output return hose coming from the external cannister filter. You get the same good heated water distribution benefit but the set-point sensors are protected behind glass and aren't bothered by salt.

So for me, the ultimate combo is an eheim Pro or Pro2 filter, with a Hydor Inline heater, all combined and running outside the tank except for the intake and spraybar. I hasten to say though that we all suffer a built-in bias usually about our own choice of this equipment and I'm no exception, so each person has to weigh the availability and price/value question between the eheims, renas, tetratecs and fluvals for themselves. I do not recommend the eheim ecco line and I also suggest that the eheim pro/pro2 lines do have extra features over the classic line that I think are worth going for. I do happen to feel that these recommended eheims have, potentially, an edge in quality and quietness over the others, but this sometimes comes with the trade-off of poorer availability and price.

Understanding and actually practicing good filter and heater maintenance is a leveling force. A lesser piece of equipment that is better understood and maintained could easily give a better service life and even a better experience than a fancier piece of equipment that is not well-maintained by the aquarist.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Okay! First, thanks to everyone for the advice and suggestions!! Some specifics and a bunch more questions:

Eheim Thermofilter
Yes. Would love this. At the price, though, it isn't going to happen at this point. The 55 gallon tank and stand (not to mention all the rest that goes along with it) has put me in a not-great position already, so a nearly $400 filter isn't going to come to be, unfortunately.

Internal heater: Hm. Given the advice here (about cost and getting them to both come on at the same time etc), I guess I'll stick with one for now. One more question if went this way: Where best to put it? Middle, one side, horizontally toward the bottom middle? For a 55 gallon, best to use a 300w?

...and a decent external filter with a spray bar that goes along the whole length of the tank.
Question about this: Most of the sections are going to have a male betta in. At least one will have something else, like zebra danios. The bettas don't like much flow from a filter - they like it still, as you know. So if I have a spray bar across the entire tank, is the flow adjustable? How would I best deal with this?

I like the Rena Filstar XP2
Great, thanks. I will check it out!

The answer I found (and I credit RDD and some others here) was the excellent Hydor Inline series of heaters.
Ooo. Great suggestion, thank you! I didn't even know these existed. I read a bit about them now, and sounds like a great answer to the heater issue! :good:

Okay - so if I went with an Eheim Pro or Pro 2, what size would I need? Any suggestions on which filters overall (the Eheims discussed, the Rena mentioned, etc) are "easiest" for a rank beginner like me to understand, deal with, and maintain? I'm not a dope - I certainly can and will learn whatever I need to - but if one is less complicated but still as good quality, that would be good to know if you kwim.

No one addressed HOB filters. Not worth even considering I suppose, with a tank this size? (Talking about 2.)

A guy in the LFS suggested a cannister with the intake at one end of the tank, and output (this is different than a spraybar? Forgive me - I know nothing about cannisters) at the other, to ensure decent flow. This make sense? (I don't trust them almost at all, so check everything here!)

Thanks again!!
 
HOBs or "Power Filters" as they are often called in the USA are indeed also a thing you should consider. In fact I believe we've had a number of members with dual AquaClear large HOBs, one at each end of a 55g and this is potentially a very good solution. I'm not sure of which AquaClear models would be right. You'd have to study the flow specifications. You could also go with one external cannister and one HOB, which would give you some experience with both types and enhance your learning.

I mention the AquaClear because it has received high marks from the members for being "flexible." Now what does that mean? It means that the filter box is basically a big wide-open rectangle into which you are left free to decide on and put your own various layers of media if you want to. Of course AquaClear tries to sell you on their own packets of media to fit in but you're not tied down to this. Many other designs are much more aggressive in trying to have the box and cartridge designs force you into only being able to choose media materials from the maker of the filter. Untold engineering man-hours are spent trying to get you back and buying their cartridges rather than designing the filter to provide better filtration for fish!

Winterlily, in any filter planning, the first bit of homework you do is to write down the makes and models that seem in roughly the right range. Then you must search the web sites of the makers trying to find the first bit of data that tells you the "flow rate" for each model. They will bury this info often in odd web pages or PDF files or even only in the user manual for the filter. The most confusing thing is that they will be more prominent in telling you the size tank the filter is recommended for. This is -not- the same thing as the flow rate specification and often makes the filter look better than its flow rate suggests. Even the flow rates themselves are optimistic and one should consider sometimes the next model up to get the rate one really wants.

Recommending flow rates is full of pitfalls. Once again its one of those things where an experienced aquarist can make a tank work with a wide range of flow rates but a beginner can still mess a tank up even with things that are supposed to be the best. At TFF we often recommend a starting point for consideration as being a 5x turnover rate. For your 55g then that would be 275 US gallons per hour, which of course would move all the water in your tank through your filter 5 times in one hour. This sounds like a lot but in fact its a pretty normal looking filter flow once you get it running. The trade-offs with flow rate are that higher flow rates can begin to push your fish around more than you want and you'll be having to find ways to adjust that somewhat so they get some peace. In the planted tank hobby, people often choose to filter all the way up at 10x turnover, or they will use powerheads to compliment the water movement at lower levels of the tank.

In the end, one baseline thing to take away from the above paragraph is to at least make sure you're doing more than 3x turnover. 4x through 10x will all easily help an aquarium to run well. But flow rate is only one parameter out of many. You already know about media volume. That's what creates the "pecking order" among filters, with sumps at the top, external cannisters and a few large HOBS as next best, regular HOBs next, large internals next and small internals last. You can have too much flow rate but you can't have too much media volume... mother nature's media volume is essentially infinite from a fishes point of view.

A lot of what filter shopping is all about are the features that give you more flexibility or the features that make maintenance easier. Big HOBs and cannisters and some large internals can make media placement so easy. In many cannisters you simple lift a tray by its handle and its like a basket, ready to hold whatever you want to put in there.. ceramic rings, ceramic gravel, a big sponge, crushed coral, whatever. The handle lets you dunk the tray in your tank water bucket for cleaning. A big HOB is easy to lift off the tank and its dry as you carry it to the sink. Same for an external cannister. You just shut off its hoses with their shutoff levers, unclip the dual hose block and carry away the cannister. Lifting off the pumphead gives ready access to the impeller, which should be cleaned and maintained at each filter cleaning.

Another thing to consider is the noise factor. Is the tank in a noisy fish room in the back yard? Is it left alone at night in a family room? Is it in the living room where you want it quiet when guests are visiting? Is it in a bedroom where you want the most silence of all? Internal power filters can be very quiet as they are quieted by the tank water! HOBs can be a bit noisy in that they can sound like a little waterfall. High end brands of external cannisters are sometimes bought by experienced aquarists just for their quietness. Sometimes people choose two filters rather than one because the biggest filters sometimes get quite a bit louder than the medium sized ones.

Oh well, this is getting long enough for starters... :lol: (besides I think my cell phone's charged now, so I can go, lol)

~~waterdrop~~
 
Ah waterdrop - as always thanks so much for all the clear info. :)

Okay, well, ideally (and with money being no object), I'd love to have an Eheim. But money IS an object. So another choice would be the Rena Filstar XP2. But, I'd got another problem with a canister in that the spray bar is far longer than my divided sections so I'd have to make cutouts in the dividers and hope to God the suction cups on the spraybar hold - else the male Bettas will have a go at each other. Not good.

So, I was thinking 2 big AquaClears (the 110s) on either end of the tank. I KNOW canisters are better - I just can't quite work out how it's doable in this particular tank.

From what I've read, the HOBs are better at mechanical filtration and the canisters better at biological. Remember that at MOST, I'll have 8 small fish in this 55 gallon tank (4 male bettas and possibly an oto or pygmy cory in each (of 4) section - but likely/maybe not. So there might even just be four Bettas only in this big tank. Wouldn't the 2 huge AquaClears take care of the bio load just fine with the tiny bioload I'll have? Do I really need a canister in my situation?

Further, can I increase the bio filtration by adding a few sponge filters? Or do I misunderstand sponge filters?

Gotta make this decision soon as I'm picking up the mature filter media this weekend! Nothing like leaving it 'til the last minute. :rolleyes:
 
Well, you're really right, if you're going to stay with the situation described, then its quite an unusual one and I've given you "canned" answers that are not ideal for your situation and should be re-considered!

In terms of biological load, you don't need the kind of large filtration discussed. Now, let's keep in mind that in terms of keeping water moving to help deter algae, there may be some problems, but that's probably not the most important thing to be thinking about at this point, just something to keep in the back of your mind.

An interesting possibility to think about might be a good airpump with a "gang" valve, with airlines going out to sponge filters for each compartment. This would put a biofilter in each compartment. Given the tiny bioload described, I think it might be that both the external cannisters and even the big HOBs discussed might be overkill.

I'd like some other members to get in to the discussion (or even a separate thread in the Hardware and DIY section?) though to help us think about what parameters of filtration might be made smaller and be ok but whether perhaps there are other aspects better kept large enough in general for the 55g tank overall. I'm thinking perhaps one big HOB with some ways for the water to get around combined with the sponge filters in each compartment. Or perhaps just two smaller HOBs with ways for the water to move.

How are you building your dividers? I wonder if there's a way to have part of them be solid and part be a "screen" of some sort to let water move about. Going further, one could even think about where the fish will normally be and not put the screen right there. Like, perhaps the screen could go low and the bettas would stay mid to high in the tank.

Anyway, I may not have all the best info for this but if you get my direction, seems like both the betta people and the hardware/DIY types might be of some help here if you've got the time for this sort of planning... I forget what sort of timeline you're thinking about!

~~waterdrop~~
 
First lemme answer about the dividers. I'm building them myself (don't trust the store-bought dividers). They will be made from plastic canvas (the kind one gets in a craft store - it's a flexible plastic with a slew of holes. Here's what it looks like. The "holders" for it will be siliconed to the front and back and I'll just slot it in. Will have to go all the way to the top, though, as I hear too many horror stories about Bettas jumping the divider.

So, the filtered/heated water will be getting through from compartment to compartment - assumedly. Hopefully. That's the plan.

I forget what sort of timeline you're thinking about!
I seem to do everything last minute - or well, at least I ask my questions last minute. I'm picking up mature filter media this weekend - so should have a filter(s) running by then!

Can you expand on the air pump/gang valve/sponge filter in each compartment thought?

And, I'll post in DIY/Hardware as well, as you suggest. Thanks!
 
Air gangs are like tiny faucets. There's a plastic thing that hangs over the back tank wall and usually 2,3,5,7 or so little brass or plastic valves (faucets) that have knurled knobs that you turn with your thumb and forfinger. You run the airline from the pump in one end and each valve allows you to control the air pressure output to an individual airline going to the tank.

Since you will have grids, rather than solid plates, the multi-sponge filter idea is less appealing, although there's nothing wrong with the idea in terms of thriftyness. Sponge filters are dirt cheap to make (plastic tube with holes etc.) I would still plan on an HOB or cannister for mechanical filtration and of course to bolster the biofiltration and to be a place for carbon etc. when or if you wanted/needed it. I'm not sure (I do not know the larger ACs by heart) but I'm suspicious the 110 might be more than you need, certainly 2 of them would be I'd think, but I could be wrong. The traffic in the hardware section is a little lower than here but hopefully you can stir up some comments.

The grid should be interesting. I wonder if it'll be a perfect algae lattice! But it would be easy to remove and clean! I wonder if the fighters will see each other through it or if you'll want a black-out sheet (I'm making this up) to hide them completely from each other? Agree that having it go higher than water level would give you a little jump protection. Its hard to ever be totally jump-proof. I've lost a couple to jumping just since my "re-beginning" in the hobby!

Well, that's tonight's installment :D

~~waterdrop~~
 
Personally I'd go for 2 smaller heaters 'just in case' and a decent external filter with a spray bar that goes along the whole length of the tank.

True. It's not that hard setting them so they come on at exactly the same time, and at least that way if one of them fails off then the other one can pick up most of the slack until you work it out :) If one of them fails on, it's also not likely to boil your fish because it's not big enough for the whole tank.

*looks at his tank*

*realises he just has one heater*

*decides to ignore his own advice*
 
Personally I'd go for 2 smaller heaters 'just in case' and a decent external filter with a spray bar that goes along the whole length of the tank.

True. It's not that hard setting them so they come on at exactly the same time, and at least that way if one of them fails off then the other one can pick up most of the slack until you work it out :) If one of them fails on, it's also not likely to boil your fish because it's not big enough for the whole tank.

*looks at his tank*

*realises he just has one heater*

*decides to ignore his own advice*
LOL, yeah, look at all the advice I give and I don't even have a real Q-tank yet...
 

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